ECT I finally found MAD in Scripture 1 Ti 6:20 "falsely so called knowledge"

john w

New member
Hall of Fame
saint john w the great'ism is full of lies and deception.
The truth of the matter is that the Bible is true and saint john'ism is false.

The words of men employ many literary devices, hyperbole, chiasm, allusion, apostrophe, metaphor, parellelism, assonance, idiom, simile, merism, synecdoche, paradox, metonymy, didactic, poetry, and so on. A good student of hermeneutics understands how to distinguish these literary devices, and not add more interpretative freight to them than they were meant to carry.…..We are to discern truth from error, speak the truth in love, defend and proclaim truth.You are out of step with mainline, orhodox prooftexting, in the context of sound, Biblical hermeneutics. You are mudding the waters, and your exegesis/eisegesis is based on faulty constructs, and your cult is a modern sect, not accepted by most credible biblical scholars, and has been rejected by most credible biblical commentaries. . Zeal without knowledge is not good. Sincerity does not create truth. Are you sure you are not a closet Calvinist? Your traditions of men has blinded you to balanced truth, as you cannot see the baby through the trees. You should not throw out the trees with the bath water.Within the evangelical, biblical tradition are a variety of non-essential views that can cause division, but few are as presumptious as you to attack our exegesis over controversial issues or nuances of articulation/understanding. Not uncritically accepting your personal, subjective views of some proof texts is indefensible, and does not shed light on your proof texts, as you filter it through your preconceived Breen-ite presuppositions, which is inconsistent with orthodox Christianity, and is problematic. I will continue to clarify my beliefs in the face of Ad Hominem attacks, misrepresentation , and sweeping/hasty/broad generalizations(even as Paul and the Jesus Christ did), in the broader context of other relevant passages. Rejecting your proof texting out of context is not the same thing as rejecting the truth of the Lord Jesus' words in light of the rest of the word of God, as that is substantial, not presumption.A wrong assumption leads to wrong conclusions. It is a challenge to not retain preconceived ideas that cloud our understanding of all the relevant verses, not just proof texts.Doctrinal truths are often couched in historical settings. We need to find out what the passage means to the original audience, in light of church history, and mainline, orthodox theology. In sum, we should not allow cultural biases, preconceived notions,and figures of speech/wooden theological literalism's,subjective opinions, etc., blind us to diametrically opposed, mutually exclusive views, and morsels of balanced Bible truth, as the challenge is to not let our preconceived eisegeses distort our exegesis.

Am I still on the right thread?

Does anyone really know what time it is? Does anyone really care? I take off on "Chicago."
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
Antinomians (MADists) have no legal or moral basis upon which they can judge or correct sinners.

They live lawlessly and therefore are total hypocrites when they tell others what they think is ethically or religiously right or wrong behavior.

What an active imagination Nang the Accuser has. Clearly she knows nothing about how people live who post on this site. Rather, she shows she has no understanding of the difference between law and grace.

Nang, you must hold the award for THE CLUELESS ONE here on TOL. :kookoo:
 

Danoh

New member
What an active imagination Nang the Accuser has. Clearly she knows nothing about how people live who post on this site. Rather, she shows she has no understanding of the difference between law and grace.

Nang, you must hold the award for THE CLUELESS ONE here on TOL. :kookoo:

Well, if we spit on others and or condone same from those we consider our own towards them, just because said others hold a different view, oppose our view, and or spit on us - that is not much of a testimony of the Grace that Grace...enables, now; is it?
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
Well, if we spit on others and or condone same from those we consider our own towards them, just because said others hold a different view, oppose our view, and or spit on us - that is not much of a testimony of the Grace that Grace...enables, now; is it?

I'm not really concerned about my testimony on this site. I'm quite comfortable just saying what I honestly believe to be true. No more...no less.
 

northwye

New member
When tactics of the dialectic have been used in a dialogue, as on this thread, then when an attempt has been successfully made to shift the focus from that of the original topic, that tactic of shifting the focus can be seen to be just another tactic of the dialectic, which is sometimes successful.

The focus of this thread is Paul's warning about false teachers teaching false doctrines by a type of argument which he refers to as "the anti-thesis (oppositions) of knowing falsely called."

Christian Zionists on this thread have so far been unable to deal with this topic directly, and so they side step the topic and try to change the focus to something else.

A part of the problem is that many Christian Zionists do not understand what the dialectic is and how it might relate to other scripture.

Antithesis is Strong's Exhaustive Concordance number 477, which is said to mean "opposition, i.e., a conflict of theories. In the Hegelian dialectic there is an opposition of two positions (theories, if you wish).

Those who operate with the dialectic - which is now almost everyone -
try to justify themselves before men Luke 16: 15 "And the Pharisees also, who were covetous, heard all these things: and they derided him. 15.And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God."

The dialectic within dialogue is only an argument between men. That argument does not change a doctrine of God. Men try to justify themselves in following some doctrine that is not of God by use of the dialectic in a dialogue with another man.

From http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/didactic

The English word didactic is said to mean "Intended to teach, particularly in having moral instruction as an ulterior motive..........Origin, Mid 17th century: from Greek didaktikos, from didaskein 'teach'........."

The English word didactic has much the same meaning as the Greek word didasko translated as teach, taught, etc in the New Testament.

The didactic method of teaching is based upon a concept of truth, that there is truth which can be learned. The didactic teacher teaches that truth to others. But the Socratic method of teaching, or of debate, is a form of dialogue between individuals, based on asking and answering questions.

But in the Hegelian Dialectic, there are two opposing positions. One position is called the thesis and the opposing position is called the anti-thesis. The result of the clash between the two opposing positions, called the synthesis. This is not just an abstract philosophical concept, but the Hegelian Dialectic has been used to create methods of argument. The Hegelian Dialectic influences the way people think.

The dialectic often develops out the conflict between an emotional relationship and an
absolute truth. It could also be an absolute morality that a
relationship comes into conflict with. The emotional relationship is often with a man-made
theology, the church, and one's own denomination, his or her own congregation,
the minister, and friends within that congregation.

The dialectic is found in use in Genesis 3: 1-6 where Satan deceived Eve into accepting the exact opposite of what God had said to Adam and Eve, tat if they ate of the tree they would die. It is also found in John 8: 32-44 where the Pharisees made an argument which is the direct opposite of what Christ was teaching.

Revelation 13: 11 says the second beast has two horns like a lamb, but speaks like a dragon. "And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon."

A lamb has two horns? How does the dragon speak? In Genesis 3 the "serpent" "was more subtle than any beast in the field," and he used the dialectic on Eve, saying in effect lets talk about you eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. "Lets have a dialog." "And come to a consensus." The big mistake that Eve made was to enter into a dialog with Satan.

There is no absolute truth or absolute morality in the dialectic mindset. But in that mental attitude a kind of pseudo "truth" is found through dialogue and argument and often that "truth" is just a consensus of the people arguing or of a group at any one time, or a following of any particular man made tradition of doctrines, and not an unchangeable truth from scripture.

Many present day Church doctrines are based on dialectically argued positions and the result is the more recent mega Church movement, the Emerging Church, the Purpose Driven Church. False doctrines are now dialectically promoted.

God's way of communicating has always been the didactic, not the dialectic. When Satan tempted Christ in Matthew 4: 3-11, the dialectic didn't work on Jesus. It didn't move him one inch off his absolute truth. He answered the devil with the didactic, "It is written" (Matthew 4: 10)

"It is written" is absolute truth. It is fact; if scripture is not considered as facts, one does not have faith.

The dialectic depends upon a dialogue being created. . The didactic way of
talking to others does not invite the dialectic as strongly as does a
dialogue, often on what is your opinion, how do you feel, I think, it
might be, it could be in my humble opinion...

In engaging in a dialogue with a defender of Christian Zionism the one who is like Jude "...earnestly contending for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints" runs the risk of himself being lured into using dishonest ways of disputing.

The tactics of the dialectic argument vary, but it often avoids a
direct focus upon the main teachings of whatever absolute truth - from
Scripture - is the issue, and hits at it from the side.

"For the Son of God, Jesus Christ, who was preached among you by
us, even by me and Silvanus and Timotheus, was not yea and nay, but in
him was yea. For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him
Amen, unto the glory of God by us." II Corinthians 1:19-20

In Jesus Christ there are no shades of grey, no double mindedness,
only absolutes.

"But above all things, my brethren, swear not, neither by heaven,
neither by the earth, neither by any other oath: but let your yea be
yea; and your nay, nay; lest ye fall into condemnation." James 5: 12
 
Last edited:

john w

New member
Hall of Fame
When tactics of the dialectic have been used in a dialogue, as on this thread, then when an attempt has been successfully made to shift the focus from that of the original topic, that tactic of shifting the focus can be seen to be just another tactic of the dialectic, which is sometimes successful.

The focus of this thread is Paul's warning about false teachers teaching false doctrines by a type of argument which he refers to as "the anti-thesis (oppositions) of knowing falsely called."

Christian Zionists on this thread have so far been unable to deal with this topic directly, and so they side step the topic and try to change the focus to something else.

A part of the problem is that many Christian Zionists do not understand what the dialectic is and how it might relate to other scripture.

Antithesis is Strong's Exhaustive Concordance number 477, which is said to mean "opposition, i.e., a conflict of theories. In the Hegelian dialectic there is an opposition of two positions (theories, if you wish).

Those who operate with the dialectic - which is now almost everyone -
try to justify themselves before men Luke 16: 15 "And the Pharisees also, who were covetous, heard all these things: and they derided him. 15.And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God."

The dialectic within dialogue is only an argument between men. That argument does not change a doctrine of God. Man try to justify themselves in following some doctrine that is not of God by use of the dialectic in a dialogue with another man.

From http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/didactic

The English word didactic is said to mean "Intended to teach, particularly in having moral instruction as an ulterior motive..........Origin, Mid 17th century: from Greek didaktikos, from didaskein 'teach'........."

The English word didactic has much the same meaning as the Greek word didasko translated as teach, taught, etc in the New Testament.

The didactic method of teaching is based upon a concept of truth, that there is truth which can be learned. The didactic teacher teaches that truth to others. But the Socratic method of teaching, or of debate, is a form of dialogue between individuals, based on asking and answering questions.

But in the Hegelian Dialectic, there are two opposing positions. One position is called the thesis and the opposing position is called the anti-thesis. The result of the clash between the two opposing positions, called the synthesis. This is not just an abstract philosophical concept, but the Hegelian Dialectic has been used to create methods of argument. The Hegelian Dialectic influences the way people think.

The dialectic often develops out the conflict between an emotional relationship and an
absolute truth. It could also be an absolute morality that a
relationship comes into conflict with. The relationship is often with a man-made
theology, the church, and one's own denomination, his or her own congregation,
the minister, and friends within that congregation.

The dialectic is found in use in Genesis 3: 1-6 where Satan deceived Eve into accepting the exact opposite of what God had said to Adam and Eve, tat if they ate of the tree they would die. It is also found in John 8: 32-44 where the Pharisees made an argument which is the direct opposite of what Christ was teaching.

Revelation 13: 11 says the second beast has two horns like a lamb, but speaks like a dragon. "And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon."

A lamb has two horns? How does the dragon speak? In Genesis 3 the "serpent" "was more subtle than any beast in the field," and he used the dialectic on Eve, saying in effect lets talk about you eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. "Lets have a dialog." "And come to a consensus." The big mistake that Eve made was to enter into a dialog with Satan.

There is no absolute truth or absolute morality in the dialectic mindset. But in that mental attitude a kind of pseudo "truth" is found through dialogue and argument and often that "truth" is just a consensus of the people arguing or of a group at any one time, or a following of any particular man made tradition of doctrines, and not an unchangeable truth from scripture.

Many present day Church doctrines are based on dialectically argued positions and the result is the more recent mega Church movement, the Emerging Church, the Purpose Driven Church - or older 19th century false doctrines that are now dialectically promoted.

God's way of communicating has always been the didactic, not the dialectic. When Satan tempted Christ in Matthew 4: 3-11, the dialectic didn't work on Jesus. It didn't move him one inch off his absolute truth. He answered the devil with the didactic, "It is written" (Matthew 4: 10)

"It is written" is absolute truth. It is fact; if scripture is not considered as facts, one does not have faith.

. The dialectic depends upon a dialogue being created. . The didactic way of
talking to others does not invite the dialectic as strongly as does a
dialogue, often on what is your opinion, how do you feel, I think, it
might be, it could be in my humble opinion...

In engaging in a dialogue with a defender of Christian Zionism the one who is like Jude "...earnestly contending for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints" runs the risk of himself being lured into using dishonest ways of disputing.

The tactics of the dialectic argument vary, but it often avoids a
direct focus upon the main teachings of whatever absolute truth - from
Scripture - is the issue, and hits at it from the side.

"For the Son of God, Jesus Christ, who was preached among you by
us, even by me and Silvanus and Timotheus, was not yea and nay, but in
him was yea. For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him
Amen, unto the glory of God by us." II Corinthians 1:19-20

In Jesus Christ there are no shades of grey, no double mindedness,
only absolutes.

"But above all things, my brethren, swear not, neither by heaven,
neither by the earth, neither by any other oath: but let your yea be
yea; and your nay, nay; lest ye fall into condemnation." James 5: 12

My dialectic went out last night. Any suggestions?
 

Right Divider

Body part
You and your MADist cult, are Antinomianists . . .
You and your Calvinists cultists are Anti-graceians. So there.

Those who practice lawlessness, which is the ultimate heresy and revolt against the will of God.
False accusation, as per usual. Your lies are a sin against God Nang.

May all who read the MAD views, be aware of this error that is prophesied as the doom of this present creation.
More made up Nangism.

I find it incredible that YOU and YOURS make the SAME claims against us as were made against PAUL.... that means that we are in great shape in our view.
 

Nang

TOL Subscriber
The didactic method of teaching is based upon a concept of truth, that there is truth which can be learned. The didactic teacher teaches that truth to others. But the Socratic method of teaching, or of debate, is a form of dialogue between individuals, based on asking and answering questions.

But in the Hegelian Dialectic, there are two opposing positions. One position is called the thesis and the opposing position is called the anti-thesis. The result of the clash between the two opposing positions, called the synthesis. This is not just an abstract philosophical concept, but the Hegelian Dialectic has been used to create methods of argument. The Hegelian Dialectic influences the way people think.

The dialectic often develops out the conflict between an emotional relationship and an
absolute truth.
It could also be an absolute morality that a
relationship comes into conflict with. The emotional relationship is often with a man-made
theology, the church, and one's own denomination, his or her own congregation,
the minister, and friends within that congregation.



There is no absolute truth or absolute morality in the dialectic mindset.
But in that mental attitude a kind of pseudo "truth" is found through dialogue and argument and often that "truth" is just a consensus of the people arguing or of a group at any one time, or a following of any particular man made tradition of doctrines, and not an unchangeable truth from scripture.

Many present day Church doctrines are based on dialectically argued positions and the result is the more recent mega Church movement, the Emerging Church, the Purpose Driven Church. False doctrines are now dialectically promoted.

God's way of communicating has always been the didactic,
not the dialectic. When Satan tempted Christ in Matthew 4: 3-11, the dialectic didn't work on Jesus. It didn't move him one inch off his absolute truth. He answered the devil with the didactic, "It is written" (Matthew 4: 10)

"It is written" is absolute truth. It is fact; if scripture is not considered as facts, one does not have faith.

The tactics of the dialectic argument vary, but it often avoids a
direct focus upon the main teachings of whatever absolute truth - from
Scripture
- is the issue, and hits at it from the side.

"For the Son of God, Jesus Christ, who was preached among you by
us, even by me and Silvanus and Timotheus, was not yea and nay, but in
him was yea. For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him
Amen, unto the glory of God by us." II Corinthians 1:19-20

In Jesus Christ there are no shades of grey, no double mindedness,
only absolutes.


"But above all things, my brethren, swear not, neither by heaven,
neither by the earth, neither by any other oath: but let your yea be
yea; and your nay, nay; lest ye fall into condemnation." James 5: 12

Tidbits, that bear repeating.

Thanks for your good teachings, northwye . . .
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
Obviously you are NOT worried about your testimony.

And you are? :chuckle:

One's "testimony" is how one got saved, and in how one lives their life.
Whether you like the things I say doesn't matter....what does matter is whether I'm being honest or not.
Some like to put on a mask and pretend to be what they aren't.

Your choice.
 

dodge

New member
And you are? :chuckle:

One's "testimony" is how one got saved, and in how one lives their life.
Whether you like the things I say doesn't matter....what does matter is whether I'm being honest or not.
Some like to put on a mask and pretend to be what they aren't.

Your choice.

Christians don't answer to God in your opinion they only answer to themselves, got ya.
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
Christians don't answer to God in your opinion they only answer to themselves, got ya.

Now where would you get that idea? In the first place, God sees into my heart. He doesn't need to hear my testimony (He was there when I got saved). Others see my testimony when they see all my trust is in the Lord Jesus Christ.

So, I have no idea what kind of anger issues you happen to carry around, but it's silly to make comments like you just did that don't say anything....nada....zip. Are you venting your frustration on me....on others here?
 

dodge

New member
Now where would you get that idea? In the first place, God sees into my heart. He doesn't need to hear my testimony (He was there when I got saved). Others see my testimony when they see all my trust is in the Lord Jesus Christ.

So, I have no idea what kind of anger issues you happen to carry around, but it's silly to make comments like you just did that don't say anything....nada....zip. Are you venting your frustration on me....on others here?

What you or I think about you is immaterial what God thinks about you is what matters.

1 Corinthians 9:19-23Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

19 For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more. 20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law; 21 to them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law. 22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some. 23 And this I do for the gospel’s sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.


Paul got it right !

I hate lies, sin , disrespecting God or His witness. That is MY anger issues.
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
What you or I think about you is immaterial what God thinks about you is what matters.

1 Corinthians 9:19-23Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

19 For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more. 20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law; 21 to them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law. 22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some. 23 And this I do for the gospel’s sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.


Paul got it right !

I hate lies, sin , disrespecting God or His witness. That is MY anger issues.

Well, don't take it out on others.

You see "disrespect" for God where there is none.

I am totally at peace with God, and have full assurance of my salvation. I would hope you find both.
 

dodge

New member
Well, don't take it out on others.

You see "disrespect" for God where there is none.

I am totally at peace with God, and have full assurance of my salvation. I would hope you find both.

I would hope you live your faith in word and deed as Jesus and Paul instructed us to do.

I was saved in 1978 and have never doubted God or His word.
 
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