How the Gospel Refutes All Religions and Reconciles Us to God

[Robert Pate]

Religion is not an indication of faith. Religion is an indication of the absence of faith.

Do you believe that you must follow Calvinism, Catholicism or some other religion to be saved? Jesus is the one that claims to be your savior and the savior of the whole world, 1 John 2:2. If that is true, then why do you follow or need a religion? How can Calvinism save you? What if you are wrong about predestination? Will you be lost. Same thing for Catholics. What if you find out that the Catholic church does not save anyone, will you be lost?

These religions do not promote faith in Christ, instead they promote faith in something other than Christ and his Gospel. Religion, whether it be the Calvinist religion or the Catholic religion are all a diversion away from Christ and his Gospel. None of it leads to the truth that is found in Christ and his Gospel.

If the Gospel is "The power of God unto salvation" Romans 1:16. Then how can you believe that Calvinism or Catholicism will save you? There is no power in religion, because there is no Holy Spirit in religion. The only thing in the Bible that has power is the Gospel of Jesus Christ. On the day of Pentecost the Gospel came into the world in the Power of the Holy Spirit. Thousands heard the Gospel, believed and were converted to Christ, Acts 2:41 also Acts 4:4. There was no religion involved in this event. They heard Peter's Gospel, they believed Peter's Gospel and were saved. Plain and simple.

Which proves Paul's message that, "Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God" (which is the Gospel) Romans 10:17. The moment that one believes the Gospel they are eternally reconciled to God by Jesus Christ, 2 Corinthians 5:18,19.. All that Jesus did in his life, death and resurrection becomes theirs. They are justified by faith, because they have been justified by Christ, Romans 3:26. No religion was needed. What could one possible add to the Christ event that would save them or make them better than what Christ has made them?

 

[jamie]

There is the baby and there is the bathwater.

Jesus is a priest, are you?

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

Religion is not an indication of faith. Religion is an indication of the absence of faith.

Christianity is a faith religion. We are called tobelieve things that cannot be believed by unbelievers. They are things of theSpirit that unbelievers do not have access to, 1 Corinthians 2:14. We spend alot of time on the forum trying to convince these people that are void of theSpirit things of the Spirit.

Make up your mind, Robert. Your confusion is showing again. :AMR:

AMR

 

[beloved57]

Religion is not an indication of faith. Religion is an indication of the absence of faith.

Do you believe that you must follow Calvinism, Catholicism or some other religion to be saved? Jesus is the one that claims to be your savior and the savior of the whole world, 1 John 2:2. If that is true, then why do you follow or need a religion? How can Calvinism save you? What if you are wrong about predestination? Will you be lost. Same thing for Catholics. What if you find out that the Catholic church does not save anyone, will you be lost?

These religions do not promote faith in Christ, instead they promote faith in something other than Christ and his Gospel. Religion, whether it be the Calvinist religion or the Catholic religion are all a diversion away from Christ and his Gospel. None of it leads to the truth that is found in Christ and his Gospel.

If the Gospel is "The power of God unto salvation" Romans 1:16. Then how can you believe that Calvinism or Catholicism will save you? There is no power in religion, because there is no Holy Spirit in religion. The only thing in the Bible that has power is the Gospel of Jesus Christ. On the day of Pentecost the Gospel came into the world in the Power of the Holy Spirit. Thousands heard the Gospel, believed and were converted to Christ, Acts 2:41 also Acts 4:4. There was no religion involved in this event. They heard Peter's Gospel, they believed Peter's Gospel and were saved. Plain and simple.

Which proves Paul's message that, "Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God" (which is the Gospel) Romans 10:17. The moment that one believes the Gospel they are eternally reconciled to God by Jesus Christ, 2 Corinthians 5:18,19.. All that Jesus did in his life, death and resurrection becomes theirs. They are justified by faith, because they have been justified by Christ, Romans 3:26. No religion was needed. What could one possible add to the Christ event that would save them or make them better than what Christ has made them?

You teach that sinners Christ died for and reconciled to God by His Death Rom 5:10 are still going to perish in their sins anyways! That denies the Gospel!

 

[Robert Pate]

Make up your mind, Robert. Your confusion is showing again. :AMR:

AMR

There is no contradiction in what I say. You would like to believe that there is, because what I teach (The Gospel) is a threat to your phony Calvinist doctrine.

 

[Robert Pate]

You teach that sinners Christ died for and reconciled to God by His Death Rom 5:10 are still going to perish in their sins anyways! That denies the Gospel!

The only sinners that will perish are the Gospel rejecting sinners like yourself.

 

[beloved57]

The only sinners that will perish are the Gospel rejecting sinners like yourself.

The only sinners that perish are those whom Christ did not die to save !

 

[beloved57]

There is no contradiction in what I say. You would like to believe that there is, because what I teach (The Gospel) is a threat to your phony Calvinist doctrine.

You oppose the Gospel, teaching that sinners Christ shed His Blood for still perish in their sins, He washed away !

 

[Robert Pate]

The only sinners that perish are those whom Christ did not die to save !

Jesus acceptance into heaven means that salvation has been provided for everyone, Hebrews 1:3.

Even Gospel rejecters like yourself.

 

[musterion]

You oppose the Gospel, teaching that sinners Christ shed His Blood for still perish in their sins, He washed away !

That is a lie, because Heb 11:6. God has ALWAYS deserved and required faith.

It is a fact that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself but that act did not negate the requirement of faith in what He said to believe. The principle of Hebrews 12:14 also is still very much true. But how does one get that holiness today? By FAITH in Christ by believing the Gospel of the grace of God, which all may do if they repent, because He's given faith to all, Acts 17:31.

 

[beloved57]

musterion

That is a lie, because Heb 11:6. God has ALWAYS deserved and required faith.

Your statement is false. Heb 11:6 doesnt say:

God has ALWAYS deserved and required faith

Those Christ died for are reconciled to God by His death while they are enemies Rom 5:10

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

Robert Pate's Seven Deadly Heterodoxies

Robert Pate's Seven Deadly Heterodoxies

Religion is not an indication of faith. Religion is an indication of the absence of faith.

Christianity is a faith religion. We are called to believe things that cannot be believed by unbelievers. They are things of the Spirit that unbelievers do not have access to, 1 Corinthians 2:14. We spend alot of time on the forum trying to convince these people that are void of theSpirit things of the Spirit.

Make up your mind, Robert. Your confusion is showing again [<--link]. :AMR:

AMR

There is no contradiction in what I say. You would like to believe that there is, because what I teach (The Gospel) is a threat to your phony Calvinist doctrine.

Of course you see no contradiction, despite the plain evidence before us all, Robert.

When you...

- deny the infallibility of Scripture;
- limit what God actually knows;
- believe that God is absent on earth;
- think the dead saints merely sleep in the grave before the resurrection;
- believe no one deserves eternal punishment;
- deny eternal punishment in favor of annihilation; and
- hopes that even in death the unbelievers are given a second chance to repent,

...it is no wonder you cannot recognize contradictions seen by even the most casual observer of your own words.

AMR

 

[Robert Pate]

Of course you see no contradiction, despite the plain evidence before us all, Robert.

When you...

- deny the infallibility of Scripture;
- limit what God actually knows;
- believe that God is absent on earth;
- think the dead saints merely sleep in the grave before the resurrection;
- believe no one deserves eternal punishment;
- deny eternal punishment in favor of annihilation; and
- hopes that even in death the unbelievers are given a second chance to repent,

...it is no wonder you cannot recognize contradictions seen by even the most casual observer of your own words.

AMR

Your accusations are false.


RELIGION: man's preoccupation with his own spirituality.

You are so much in love with your religion that you call yourself Mr. Religion, how nauseating.

Religion, especially the Calvinist religion is very subjective. "I have been elected" "I am one of the chosen ones" It is all about me, me, me. This is why you like it and why you have no interest in the Gospel.

The Gospel is about Jesus Christ, His life, His death, His resurrection, His doing and His dying. It is not about you. You had nothing, absolutely nothing, to do with the Gospel. That is probably why you hate it.

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

RELIGION: man's preoccupation with his own spirituality....

Lots of self-righteous words there, Robert, but no attention was paid to the actual topic to which you responded. One of us, me, is actually trying to have a discussion. The other, you, is trying mightily to avoid it. :AMR:

I get that you think you are just blogging when you post, but once in a while, why not try having a discussion about your "blog" entries.

Starting dozens of threads essentially on the same topic and never seriously engaging—versus driving by with complaining and dismissing comments—is really not the underlying purpose of a discussion site.

In case you need to refresh yourself to get back on track:
http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?p=4831537#post4831537

I assume you think things will go unnoticed as long as you deflect them with the usual anti-Calvinist vitriol. Sigh.

By the way, as providence would have it, I thought of you when this crossed my desk early this morning:

The Holiness of God and Chosen By God: Stream These Classic Series for Free:

Chosen by God: http://www.ligonier.org/learn/series/chosen_by_god/

1. Everyone Believes this Doctrine
2. God's Sovereignty
3. What Is Free Will?
4. Man's Radical Fallenness

Holiness of God: http://www.ligonier.org/learn/series/holiness_of_god/

1. The Importance of Holiness
2. The Trauma of Holiness
3. Holiness and Justice
4. The Insanity of Luther

Why not spend some time by sitting back and digesting some content that actually describes what those you complain about actually believe? At least you will then be able to speak a wee bit authoritatively when declaring "Calvinists believe this or that...".

AMR

 

[Robert Pate]

Lots of self-righteous words there, Robert, but no attention was paid to the actual topic to which you responded. One of us, me, is actually trying to have a discussion. The other, you, is trying mightily to avoid it. :AMR:

I get that you think you are just blogging when you post, but once in a while, why not try having a discussion about your "blog" entries.

Starting dozens of threads essentially on the same topic and never seriously engaging—versus driving by with complaining and dismissing comments[FONT=&]—is really not the underlying purpose of a discussion site.[/FONT]

In case you need to refresh yourself to get back on track:
http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?p=4831537#post4831537

I assume you think things will go unnoticed as long as you deflect them with the usual anti-Calvinist vitriol. Sigh.

By the way, as providence would have it, I thought of you when this crossed my desk early this morning:

The Holiness of God and Chosen By God: Stream These Classic Series for Free:

Chosen by God: http://www.ligonier.org/learn/series/chosen_by_god/

1. Everyone Believes this Doctrine
2. God's Sovereignty
3. What Is Free Will?
4. Man's Radical Fallenness

Holiness of God: http://www.ligonier.org/learn/series/holiness_of_god/

1. The Importance of Holiness
2. The Trauma of Holiness
3. Holiness and Justice
4. The Insanity of Luther

Why not spend some time by sitting back and digesting some content that actually describes what those you complain about actually believe? At least you will then be able to speak a wee bit authoritatively when declaring "Calvinists believe this or that...".

AMR

The Gospel refutes you and every thing that you believe.

You have no answers as to how God has reconciled the whole world unto himself by Jesus Christ, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19. Nor do you have any answers for those scriptures that say Jesus is the savior of the whole world, 1 John 2:2. Even when Jesus claims to be the savior of the world, John 12:47. Your denial of the Lordship of Jesus Christ will probably be your ticket to hell.

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

Bloggers. Sigh. They never keep up.

Robert, in all your tenure here at TOL, there is not a single verse you have ever cited to which I have not responded to with actual discussion pointing out your errors or misunderstandings. When presented with my response, you simply move the goal posts and dare not respond substantively. Claiming I do not have answers is just the lazy man's attempt to avoid standing still long enough to be examined about one's views.

For example, if you want to actually engage, start here.

AMR

 

[Robert Pate]

Bloggers. Sigh. They never keep up.

Robert, in all your tenure here at TOL, there is not a single verse you have ever cited to which I have not responded to with actual discussion pointing out your errors or misunderstandings. When presented with my response, you simply move the goal posts and dare not respond substantively. Claiming I do not have answers is just the lazy man's attempt to avoid standing still long enough to be examined about one's views.

For example, if you want to actually engage, start here.

AMR

We are engaging now.

Show me one scripture that says God has predestinated someone to heaven or to hell.

Your doctrine is pro religion and anti-Gospel.

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

Robert Pate Claims We Are Engaging Now. Let's See That In Action.

Robert Pate Claims We Are Engaging Now. Let's See That In Action.

We are engaging now.

Show me one scripture that says God has predestinated someone to heaven or to hell.

I see. You want to avoid the more recent topic and move onwards. :AMR:

Nevertheless, I am happy to provide you with a response to test just how "engaging" you are willing to be, Robert.

The reasons are why predestination should be embraced is because Our Lord and the apostles frequently taught it, since it appears from in the Gospels, e.g., Matthew 11:20, 25; 13:11; 25:34; Luke 10:20; 12:32; John 8:47; 15:16 and in other places. Predestination is also is taught from the epistles of Paul, the whole of Rom. 9 and Rom. 8:29, 30; Eph. 1:4, 5; 2 Tim. 1:9; 1 Thess. 5:9; 2 Thess. 2:13. Further, Peter, James and John express themselves who speak repeatedly of the mystery of predestination whenever occasion offered.

So if it was proper for Our Lord and the Apostles to teach predestination, why is it not proper for us to learn it? Why should God teach what would have been better not spoken about? Why did God wish to proclaim those things which it would be better not to know? Do we wish to be more prudent than God or to prescribe rules to God? I hope not. Predestination is part and parcel of Scripture and we should not run from what Scripture has to teach us about the matter.

Let's consider the sense in which the words predestination, prognseos, ekloges, and protheseos are used in Scripture. Since the Scriptures use various words in explaining the mystery of predestination, we must premise certain things concerning these words used by Scripture.

The word predestination is being used here, and it must not be passed over lightly. For although the word proorismou does not exist in the Scriptures, yet the verb from which it comes is often read, see Acts 4:28; Rom. 8:29, 30 Ephesians 1:5. Moreover to predestinate (or proorizein from the force of the verb) signifies to determine something concerning things before they take place and to direct them to a certain end.

However, it is understood by the inspired writers in three ways.

Spoiler

Firstly, the word is understood more widely for every decree of God about creatures and most especially about moral creatures in order to their ultimate end.

Secondly, more specially for the counsel of God concerning men as fallen either to be saved by grace or to be damned by justice, which is commonly called election and reprobation.

Thirdly, most specially for the decree of election, which is called the predestination of the saints. Again according to the latter, it can be taken in two senses: not only for the destination to the end, but particularly for the destination to the means. In this sense it is used by Paul when he says that God predestinated those whom he foreknew to be conformed to the image of his Son, Rom. 8:29, 30. Here it is plain that predestination is distinguished from foreknowledge and refers most especially to the end. Thus after saying that God hath chosen us in Christ, the having predestinated us unto the adoption of children (proorisasian, Eph. 1:5) to mark the destination of means ordained for obtaining the salvation destined by election.

There are four reasons why predestination embraces reprobation.

Spoiler

Firstly, the Scripture extends the word proorizein to the wicked acts of those reprobates who procured the crucifixion of Christ-the son of man goeth kata to horismenon (Luke 22:22; Acts 4:28), Herod and Pontius Pilate did nothing but what the hand of God proorise to be done. Nor should an objection be made that it does not teach of their reprobation, but of the ordination of the crucifixion to a good end. The crucifixion of Our Lord—which is to us the means of salvation—was to the crucifiers the means of damnation, which depended on the most just decree of God.

Secondly, the Scripture uses equivalent phrases when it says that certain persons are appointed to wrath (1 Thess. 5:9; 1 Peter 2:8), fitted to destruction (Rom. 9:22), ordained to condemnation (Jude 4), made unto dishonor (Romans 9:21) and for the day of evil (Proverbs 16:4). If reprobation is described in these phrases, is it not proper that it be expressed by the word predestination?

Thirdly, because the definition of predestination—the ordination of a thing to its end by means before it comes to pass—is no less suitable to reprobation than to election.

The second word related to predestination which occurs more frequently is prognosis. Paul speaks of it more than once: whom he did foreknow (hous proegno), Rom. 8:29); he hath not cast away his people which proegna (Rom. 11:2); and they are called elect according to foreknowledge (kata prognosin, 1 Peter 1:2).

Given that ancient and more modern Pelagian leaning folks. for example Arminians, falsely abuse this word to establish the foresight of faith and works, one must observe that prognosin can be taken in two ways: either theoretically or practically.

In the theoretical way, prognosin is taken for God’s simple knowledge of future things, which is called prescience and pertains to God's intellect.

In the practical way, prognosin is taken for the practical love and decree which God formed concerning the salvation of particular persons and pertains to God's will. In this sense, knowledge is often used for delight and approbation (Psalm 1:6); John 10:14; 2 Timothy 2:19). Thus ginoskein signifies not only to know but also to know and to judge concerning a thing.

So when the Scripture uses the word prognoseos in the doctrine of predestination, it is not in the theoretical sense as to the bare foreknowledge of God by which He foresaw the faith or works of men. Rather it is taken in the practical sense for practical foreknowledge—the love and election of God—that we may not suppose it to be without reason, although the reasons of God's wisdom may escape us, in which manner Our Lord is said to have been foreknown [proegnsmenos], that is foreordained by God before the foundation of the world, 1 Pet. 1:20.

Again, in that benevolence and practical foreknowledge of God is distinguished two things: (1) the love and benevolence with which God pursues us; and (2) the decree itself by which God determined to unfold His love to us by the communication of salvation.

Therefore it happens in Scripture that prognosis is at one time taken broader for both (love and election, as in Rom. 8:29 and Rom. 11:2); at other times in Scripture, more strictly for love and favor which is the fountain and foundation of election. This is why Peter speaks of it when he says that believers are elect according to the foreknowledge (kata prognosin), that is, the love of God (1 Peter 1:2).

The word ekloges (election) which now and then occurs, is not always to be taken with the same significance as above. Sometimes election denotes a call to some political or sacred office (as Saul is elected (1 Samuel 10:24); Judas elected, to the Apostleship, John 6:70). Sometimes election designates an external election and separation of a certain people to the covenant of God, in which sense the people of Israel are said to be elected of God, Deut. 4:37.

But in this discussion about one's destiny, election is taken objectively for the elect themselves (as ekloge epetychen—the election—the elect hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded, Romans 11:7); or formally for the act of God electing (which is called ekloge charitos, Romans 9:11). The act of God electing may be considered either in the antecedent decree from eternity or in the subsequent execution of the decree as it takes place only in time by calling. Our Lord refers to this in John 15:16: Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you; and Ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world (John 15:19).

In other words, we can join the decree and its execution by saying, We are elected before the foundation of the world by that predestination in which God foresaw his future things would take place; we are chosen out of the world however by that calling by which God fulfills what God has predestinated.

Election then, by the force of the word, is stricter than predestination. For all can predestined, but all cannot be elected because God who elects does not take all, but chooses a great number out of all. The election of a great number necessarily implies the passing and rejecting of others: Many are called, said Our Lord, but few chosen (Matthew 20:16); and likewise Paul, The election hath obtained, and the rest were blinded (Romans 11:7). Hence Paul uses the verb heilto to designate election, which implies the separation of some from others: God from the beginning heilto, that is, hath taken out and separated you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief in the truth (2 Thess. 2:13).

Fourthly, the word prothesis is often used by Paul in the matter of election to denote that this counsel of God is not an empty and inefficacious act of willing, but the constant, determined and immutable purpose of God (Romans 8:28; 9:11; Ephesians 1:11).

For the word prothesis is of the highest efficacy and is called distinctly by Paul prothesis tou ta energountos—the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will (Ephesians 1:11). Sometimes prothesis is applied to election as prothesis kat’ eklogen—the purpose of God according to election (Romans 9:11); and we are said to be predestinated (kata prothesin, Ephesians 1:11). Sometimes prothesis is joined with calling—who are the called according to his purpose (tois kata prosthesin kletois, Romans 8:28). For both election and calling depend and are built upon this purpose of God.

Now although these words are often employed promiscuously in Scripture, they are frequently distinguished. It is not without reason are they used by the Holy Spirit to denote the various conditions of that decree which could not so adequately be explained by a single word. For God's decree can be conceived in relation to the principle from which it arises, or to the object about which it is concerned, or to the means by which it is fulfilled.

Spoiler

With regard to the principle, protheseos or eudokias—which denotes the counsel and good pleasure of God—is mentioned as the first cause of that work. With regard to the object, it is called prognosis or ekloge—which is occupied with the separation of certain persons from others unto salvation. With regard to the means, the word proorismou is used according to which God prepared the means necessary to the obtainment of salvation.

Prothesis refers to the end; prognosis refers to the objects; proorismos to the means; prodiesis to the certainty of the event; prognosis and ekloge to the singleness and distinction of persons; proorismos to the order of means. Thus election is certain and immutable by prothesin; determinate and definite by prognosin; and ordinate by proorismon.

These three degrees, if we may so speak in order to answer to three acts in the temporal execution, are seen at play in Scsripture, for as we will be glorified with the Father, redeemed by the Son and called through the Holy Spirit, so the Father determined from eternity to glorify us with Himself. This is prothesis.

God elected us in his Son. This is prognosis.

God predestinated us to grace and the gifts of the Holy Spirit, Who seals the image of the Son in us through His holiness and the suffering on the cross. This is proorismos.

For as the Father sends the Son, the Son with the Father sends the Holy Spirit. And vice versa, the Holy Spirit leads us to the Son, and the Son at length conducts us to the Father.

Finally, the words by which the predestination of the members is described in Scripture are also employed to express the predestination of the Head. For concerning Him equally prothesis is predicated when Paul says hon proetheto hilastion (Rom. 3:25); prognosis where we have proegnesmenos (1 Pet. 1:20); and proorismos, not only when He is said to be horistheis to be the Son of God (Rom. 1:4), but also when Our Lord's death is said to have happened by the determinate counsel of God and by His predestination, who proorise to be done whatever was done by Herod and Pontius Pilate (Acts 2:23).

You have my answer, now, Robert. If we are really engaging now, do so with my answer using more than denials and mere citations of Scripture.

AMR

 

[beloved57]

We are engaging now.

Show me one scripture that says God has predestinated someone to heaven or to hell.

Your doctrine is pro religion and anti-Gospel.

You have been shown scripture and you dont believe it. You dont believe the Blood of Christ saves them it was shed for !

 

[Bright Raven]

You have been shown scripture and you dont believe it. You dont believe the Blood of Christ saves them it was shed for !

Who was the blood shed for? The answer is for the whole world.

1 John 2:2 New International Version (NIV)

2 He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.