I believe Paul.
Do you ever ask yourself, "Why do I not want people to believe what the Bible plainly says?"
How Protestants got sucked into the Rapture
- Thread starter Nazaroo
- Start date
I believe Paul.
Do you ever ask yourself, "Why do I not want people to believe what the Bible plainly says?"
steko,
According to MADists, and most Dispies, they claim the Apostle Paul is referring to two completely different events (Rapture & Second Coming) in the following three verses:
(1 Thess 3:13 KJV) To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.
(1 Thess 4:15 KJV) For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
(2 Thess 2:1 KJV) Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
It's insane to claim the Apostle Paul is referring to two drastically different events in the above verses.
1Mind1Spirit
Literal lunatic
How so?
Was every man rewarded according to his works at the Transfiguration?
Jesus told His Disciples that some of them would not taste death till they see Him coming in His kingdom.
You want us to believe that an event that happened 6 days later warranted Jesus telling His Disciples that some of them would not taste death.
Up to that point, not one of Jesus' Disciples had tasted death for any reason, but somehow you have Jesus telling His Disciples that none of them would die before an event that would happen in 6 days.
Do you really think Jesus didn't know that all of them would still be alive 6 days later?
It was a pre-vision of His coming for the benefit of Peter, James and John, who had just been informed, though they didn't understand it, that the Lord was going to die:
Mat 16:21 From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.
Mat 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
The pre-vision of the second coming was an assurance to them, is spite of His death, which they would understand after the resurrection as Peter plainly cites.
How do you not believe He came into heaven when He gave up His spirit to the Father?
Luke 23:46
Jesus called out with a loud voice, "Father, into your hands I commit my spirit." When he had said this, He breathed his last.
Do you not believe that Jesus is King? How do you not believe that Jesus is in the kingdom of heaven?
I believe Peter.
He said that he and the others witnessed Christ's power and coming, when they were with Him in the holy mount.
That cinches it for me.
He says it plainly.
You'll not dissuade me from this one. It's plainly stated.
"Let it go, or I'll give you a war you won't believe."- Rambo
No....actually I'm not discussing this one with you anymore.
It's a Herculean exercise in futility.
I stand firmly on 2Pe 1:16.
Jesus didn't say that some of them wouldn't taste death before His "pre-vision".
Jesus made it clear that some of them would not taste death before His ACTAUL coming.
BTW, what the heck is a "pre-vision"?
Did you just make that up, is that needed to defend your Dispensationalism?
Is that kind of like "partial fulfillment"?
Livelystone
New member
First off it is STILL His kingdom that comes to earth and not the earth (our physical bodies) ever going to a heaven up in the skies.......... or have you not yet read how there is NOTHING that is EVER going to ascend unto heaven that has not first come down from heaven.............. Just saying !!! (Amen and amen)
John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven
Romans 10:6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above
Please remember A4T, the Law Jesus taught must be fulfilled teaches that two witnesses to the truth as I have posted above testify to a truth that cannot be denied (without committing a sin)
However, you did mention some interesting facts about others falling for an imagined rapture theory way back in the first couple of centuries.
This information is not at all surprising considering both the OT and Paul (who received revelations from OT scriptures) spoke of this happening soon after the last apostle was "taken out of the way".
Daniel 9: 25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.[/B
62 years after the ascension of Christ onto heaven His body that was the true Temple of the Body of Christ that worked just fine after He ascended unto heaven, was finally torn down and no (Lively) stones stood any longer one upon another as prophesied of by Jesus in His earthly ministry often mistaken by the blinded for the AD 70 destruction of the "temple that did not matter" (saying it kindly) :chuckle:
Because Paul received prophecies and understanding from the OT scriptures, He too wrote of this happening as the falling away (from the truth that would happen long before the gathering together of those on one accord with the truth) that would coincide with the death of the last apostle who were the "guardians of the truth".
2nd Thes.2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
I have highlighted the bold for your benefit that together with the knowledge behind the phrase "he who letteth let) translated refers to the guardians of the truth will guard the truth until "he be taken out of the way"that happened 62 years after the ascension of Christ with the death of the apostle John, the last of the living guardians of the truth were taken away that in turn paved the way for the "rising of the tail" who are the prophets that teach lies who have been in charge of the church ever since then including the dates you have mentioned when as you say the rapture was taught many years before it was in Scotland.
Blessings to you and to yours,
Doug
If it happened 6 days later (your claim), then Jesus lied when He said "some of you" would not taste death.
Also, were there any angels present?
Think steko, THINK!!!
Livelystone
New member
LOL. as if you have the remotest idea on how to rightly divide the truth...... amen? I think so
BTW you still have challenge up to prove you are not lying as posted in my post to you in post #74
Until you can do so you need to keep quiet as children who feel they need to be seen but are not to be heard from :chuckle:
Fair enough?
You are switching now- Jesus is in the kingdom of heaven right now, do you doubt this?
Do you doubt that there were witnesses to Him ascending there?
Did you forget were talking about Jesus, not us?
The physical kingdom of heaven is not on earth nor has that happened. Show me Jesus ruling from jerusalem right now if you believe all that has happened already. Thanks.
1Mind1Spirit
Literal lunatic
John 20:17 KJV
17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
Why wouldn't I?
I do believe it.
I just disagree on where the kingdom is and how one sees it.
Yes and i quoted the ascension, did you miss it, it was already posted, and here is again - do you believe there were no witnesses, it says there were?
John 18:36 Jesus answered, "My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, then My servants would be fighting so that I would not be handed over to the Jews; but as it is, My kingdom is not of this realm
Where exactly do you think the kingdom of heaven is?
Livelystone
New member
Are you lost?
Who do you think ascended unto heaven in the verses I quoted if not Jesus????????
BTW there is no physical kingdom of heaven !!!
The kingdom of heaven that is in our midst is the kingdom of spirits and souls that either belong to Jesus or belong to satan as all the spirits and souls of unregenerate persons on earth do ever since the fall of Adam........... and this you need to understand before you try to go any further............ or you will further confuse yourself
Which is what I* HAVE BEEN SAYING, are you lost? Mind1 is who is acting like Jesus isnt in heaven.
The kingdom of heaven is in heaven. you seem to be confusing my posts to mind1 and my posts to you as being one and the same when they are 2 different discussions.
1Mind1Spirit
Literal lunatic
You havent read it, you claim darby invented the rapture, and that those who witnessed the ascension, didnt actually see Jesus come into His kingdom.
you are wrong on both.
Where did i ever say there was, quote it.