ECT How is Paul's message different?

[lifeisgood]

What if the alleged rapture doesn't happen for another 500 years after you die?

So what if it is another 500 years or a million year from now?
Either way, I'll be in the presence of my Lord.

How could you have a spiritual body before the alleged rapture?

My house will be destroyed, but I will go somewhere, and so will you.

The Thief on the Cross — Luke 23:43 — Jesus answered him, "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise." (NIV)

Luke 23:40-42 — But the other, answering, rebuked him, saying, "Do you not even fear God, seeing you are under the same condemnation? And we indeed justly, for we receive the due reward of our deeds; but this Man has done nothing wrong." Then he said to Jesus, "Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom." (NKJ)

2 Cor. 5:8 — We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord. (NKJ)

Phil. 1:21-24 — For me, to live is Christ and to die is gain. If I am to go on living in the body, this will mean fruitful labor for me. Yet what shall I choose? I do not know! I am torn between the two: I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far; but it is more necessary for you that I remain in the body. (NIV)

Matt. 17:3 — Just then there appeared before them Moses and Elijah, talking with Jesus. (NIV)

Luke 16:22-23 — The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried. In hell, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. (NIV)

John 14:2-3 — "In my Father's house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I got to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also." (NKJ)

Acts 7:55-56 — But Stephan, full of the Holy Spirit, looked up to heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God. "Look," he said, "I see heaven open and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God."

Acts 7:59-60 — While they were stoning him, Stephen prayed, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit." Then he fell on his knees and cried out, "Lord, do not hold this sin against them." When he had said this, he fell asleep. (NIV)

1 Cor. 2:9-10 — But as it is written: "Eye has not see, nor ear heard, nor have entered into the heart of man the things which God as prepared for those who love Him." But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. (NKJ)

Heaven is real. Hell is real. Eternity is immediate. There is no waiting time or second chance.

 

[lifeisgood]

Christ Jesus paid the price for ALL Sins.

Your little game about "The Sin" is not biblical.

It's why you can't back it with scripture.

This simply tells me that you also do not know that THE SIN Jesus paid for is (Jn. 1:29).

 

[tetelestai]

So what if it is another 500 years or a million year from now?
Either way, I'll be in the presence of my Lord.

How?

How is that possible if you have no body to be in?

My house will be destroyed, but I will go somewhere, and so will you.

How, with no body?

The Thief on the Cross — Luke 23:43 — Jesus answered him, "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise." (NIV)

Yes, before 70AD all believers who died went to Paradise (Abraham's bosom)

Is that where you think you're going to go?

HINT: Abraham's bosom wasn't in heaven.

 

[tetelestai]

This simply tells me that you also do not know that THE SIN Jesus paid for is (Jn. 1:29).

You keep going on and on about "THE SIN", but you won't explain it to us.

 

[lifeisgood]

Can you show us any writings from John post 70AD?

As far as I know, there are no writings that exist from John post 70AD

Which would by implication say that John was not writing about 70AD events; otherwise he would have left a writing somewhere saying, "I, John, wrote to you about 70AD events, you should have listened to me" or maybe one of his contemporaries would have said, 'John told me..." or "I heard someone saying that John said..."

But no, not a pip.

While we are talking about John and 70AD, and since you believe John lived well past 70AD, maybe you should take note of what Christ Jesus said about John still being alive in 70AD:

(John 21:22) Jesus answered, "If I want him (John) to remain alive until I return, what is that to you?...

Are you saying that John is still alive? :chuckle:

 

[tetelestai]

Heaven is real. Hell is real. Eternity is immediate. There is no waiting time or second chance.

That's what I believe.

You believe that after you die, you won't get a glorified body until your alleged rapture takes place.

What happens to you in the meantime?

 

[lifeisgood]

You keep going on and on about "THE SIN", but you won't explain it to us.

If you don't know what THE SIN is, you better get your knees on the floor and ask Him, you wouldn't believe me anyway.

 

[tetelestai]

If you don't know what THE SIN is, you better get your knees on the floor and ask Him, you wouldn't believe me anyway.

I already told you I don't know what it is.

Why can't you tell us?

 

[tetelestai]

But no, not a pip.

Doesn't prove you right, or me wrong.

Are you saying that John is still alive? :chuckle:

No, but you said John was still alive in 70AD.

Read John 21:22 again, and do the math.

 

[Right Divider]

Now this is after Acts 9, if he is preaching grace why does he tell the Jews it must be preached to you first but since they reject it he is going to the Gentiles.

Is he going to the Gentiles with something different? If so, then he didn't preach it to the Jews first.

God did not mandate Paul to "preach it to the Jews first". This is just another of the confused understanding that people in "Churchianity" have about what the scripture teaches.

Read it without the bias and you'll see that:

Rom 1:16-17 KJV For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. (17) For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
​

Where does it actually say that Paul "preached to the Jews first"?

The fact of the matter is that salvation was FIRST given, by God, to the Jews.... but they (as a whole) rejected it.

This is why Jesus said:

Joh 4:22 KJV Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.​

When Paul preached to Jews, he preached AS a Jew (1 Cor 9:20). Is this hard to see in this passage in Acts 13? It sounds almost identical to Stephen in Acts 7.

Act 13:16-24 KJV Then Paul stood up, and beckoning with his hand said, Men of Israel, and ye that fear God, give audience. (17) The God of this people of Israel chose our fathers, and exalted the people when they dwelt as strangers in the land of Egypt, and with an high arm brought he them out of it. (18) And about the time of forty years suffered he their manners in the wilderness. (19) And when he had destroyed seven nations in the land of Chanaan, he divided their land to them by lot. (20) And after that he gave unto them judges about the space of four hundred and fifty years, until Samuel the prophet. (21) And afterward they desired a king: and God gave unto them Saul the son of Cis, a man of the tribe of Benjamin, by the space of forty years. (22) And when he had removed him, he raised up unto them David to be their king; to whom also he gave testimony, and said, I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfil all my will. (23) Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus: (24) When John had first preached before his coming the baptism of repentance to all the people of Israel.​

Is it hard to see the nature of this speech and who Paul is targeting?

 

[lifeisgood]

That's what I believe.

You believe that after you die, you won't get a glorified body until your alleged rapture takes place.

What happens to you in the meantime?

I never said that, that's what you say I said.

If I am to be in the presence of the Lord in a spiritual body, that body has to be glorified, otherwise, there's no way to be in His presence.

C'mon, TeT, get a grip.

 

[lifeisgood]

How?

How is that possible if you have no body to be in?


How, with no body?


Yes, before 70AD all believers who died went to Paradise (Abraham's bosom)

Is that where you think you're going to go?

HINT: Abraham's bosom wasn't in heaven.

Yes, there is a body, and it is spiritual body.

I will be in my Lord's presence in the spiritual body He will give to me so that I can be in His presence.

Obviously, Abraham's bosom was not in heaven. That's Bible 101.

 

[lifeisgood]

Doesn't prove you right, or me wrong.

No, but you said John was still alive in 70AD.

Read John 21:22 again, and do the math.

See Isbon T. Beckwith that John ministered at Ephesus after his release from Patmos and died of old age in Asia Minor. [Ibid., 366-392].

 

[lifeisgood]

I already told you I don't know what it is.

Why can't you tell us?

I was hoping that you of all people would have known what "takes away THE SIN of the world" meant.

Do you not know that animal blood could only cover THE SIN, it could NOT take THE SIN away; but Jesus offering Himself as the Perfect Sacrifice took away THE SIN of the world; He not only cleansed acts of sin but, as well, addressed the root cause [Col. 2:14–15]

THE SIN was the legal right Satan had to hold man in captivity; with THE SIN atoned, he has no more legal right to hold anyone in bondage. (Romans 8:1-2).

 

[Cross Reference]

How is Paul's message different?

Because he begins at the beginning and not with the foundation of the world.

 

[tetelestai]

I will be in my Lord's presence in the spiritual body He will give to me so that I can be in His presence.

Dispensationalism claims those dead in Christ are resurrected before the believers alive are raptured.

So, if you die before the alleged rapture, how do get a body before the dead in Christ are resurrected?

 

[lifeisgood]

Dispensationalism claims those dead in Christ are resurrected before the believers alive are raptured.

So, if you die before the alleged rapture, how do get a body before the dead in Christ are resurrected?

Oh, c'mon TeT.

What kind of body Moses, Elijah, etc. has RIGHT NOW?

I don't know about your God, but my God is the God of the LIVING and the living has a body RIGHT NOW in His presence and they are worshiping Him right now in the bodies He has given them.

 

[lifeisgood]

I never said a thing about being dumb, I said it's as if you have never read the OT.

Yes, you did and I can show you if you want.

I provided 4 verses that said He did.

Unless you address those 4 verses, you're wrong.

I did address the four verses you provided and it has absolutely nothing to do with God and all to do with MEN’s actions.

God changing His mind has nothing to do with Him UNdecreeing what He has ALREADY decreed.

It has to do with HIS MERCY and GRACE showered upon undeserving humanity in that He has decreed that humanity is going to surely die, but He has ALSO decreed that anyone who comes to Him, He, God, will not destroy.

God has NEVER changed His mind.
God will NEVER change His mind.

If God ever changed His mind, He would stop being God. Can't you see that?

I don’t see why this is so difficult to accept.

 

[turbosixx]

God did not mandate Paul to "preach it to the Jews first".

Acts 13:46 Paul and Barnabas spoke out boldly and said, "It was necessary that the word of God be spoken to you first; since you repudiate it and judge yourselves unworthy of eternal life, behold, we are turning to the Gentiles.

He said this after preaching to the Jews the same sermon Peter did.

So did he had to have preached grace to them if he was ready to preach it to the Gentiles. If he was preaching something different to the Gentiles then he hadn't preached it first to the Jews.

 

[Right Divider]

Acts 13:46 Paul and Barnabas spoke out boldly and said, "It was necessary that the word of God be spoken to you first; since you repudiate it and judge yourselves unworthy of eternal life, behold, we are turning to the Gentiles.

He said this after preaching to the Jews the same sermon Peter did.

So did he had to have preached grace to them if he was ready to preach it to the Gentiles. If he was preaching something different to the Gentiles then he hadn't preached it first to the Jews.

You can't get a Jew to accept the grace of Christ, if he won't accept that Jesus is the Christ. One comes before the other.

I realize that you're desperate to "prove" that the apostle of the Gentiles is just another one added to the twelve, but that makes no sense at all.