How important is the Sabbath?

clefty

New member
A chodesh is a month, not a moon, even though it is sometimes rendered "new moon", (that is an interpretive choice made by translators). Months have nothing to do with the moon because the year and days are regulated by the sun. A chodesh is very simply a month. As for Shabbat and my calendar it is all explained in the link and as shown therein the daily seventh hour Shabbat is the primary Shabbat of creation, not the weekly seventh day Shabbat; for Elohim spoke and it was, thus we have six hours of spoken Word creation and there is no night therein, as I said already herein from the beginning, because Elohim did not cease, desist, or REST, but rather continued to WORK by creative Word for six yamim-hours of spoken Word creation. If you keep the daily seventh hour Shabbat, from the sixth hour of the day through the seventh hour of the day, (which most people now call "lunch time"), then the Shabbat which is clearly spelled out in John 4 is essentially an eternal continuous Shabbat; for as the seventh hour passes in your location in the world, the seventh hour begins in the next time zone. And no doubt there is someone in that time zone worshiping the Father in spirit and in truth, (whether they know it is the Shabbat or not), and when their daily seventh hour Shabbat is done the Shabbat commences in the next time zone. Thus, at any given time, there is a seventh hour Shabbat in progress somewhere upon the earth in one of the twenty-four times zones and it is a continual uninterrupted perpetual Shabbat for as long as the earth endures. The seventh hour Shabbat is a never ending Shabbat: it is for all intents and purposes eternal. This cannot be said of a weekly Shabbat because you have a break of six twenty-four hour days in between Shabbatot. So as long as one is observing the daily seventh hour Shabbat, (which are called the sabbasi or the sabbasin in the Greek New Testament), then the weekly Shabbat is secondary to the primary and may be impacted by a change in the calendar. And in fact, since the poleshift at Golgotha and the new order of creation, the weekly seventh day Shabbat cannot be maintained on the same day of the week while at the same time upholding all the commandments concerning the feasts, (one of those being that Yom Kippurim is to always be on a weekly Shabbat). Therefore it is the calendar which must change. My calendar is not tied to the modern calendar but to the Vernal Equinox just as it was in the first century. The problem with the lunisolar calendar of modern Judaism is that it clearly defines the weekly Shabbat and yet does not conform to what is written by insuring that Yom Kippur always falls on its own clearly defined weekly Shabbat. In other words it really does not matter whether you call the Shabbat "Saturday" or "Wednesday" or any other name or number; but if you call a certain day of the week the Shabbat then Yom Kippurim is commanded to fall on that day, but in the lunisolar calendar of Judaism it does not. This is primarily because they no longer recognize the critical importance of the daily seventh hour Shabbat and therefore uphold the sanctity of the weekly Shabbat and yet still cannot make their own calendar work because they use the moon to decide when the months and therefore the year begins and ends.

These passages have multiple layers of meaning:

John 11:9-10
9 Yeshua answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day? If anyone walks in the day, he stumbles not, because he sees the light of this world.
10 But if anyone walks in the night, he stumbles,
because there is no light in him.

What or WHO is the Day? He is the light of the world. Therefore Yeshua says that those who walk by the night have no light in them. And no doubt this also has to do with the calendar as well as other things; for he clearly speaks of the twelve hours of the day, (which he receives not from tradition but from Numbers 7 in its overall context).

John 12:35-36
35 Then Yeshua said to them, Yet a little while is the light with you: walk while you have the light, lest darkness come upon you: for he that walks in darkness knows not where he goes.
36 While you have light, believe in the light, that you may be the sons of light. These things Yeshua spoke, and departed, and did hide himself from them.

1 Thessalonians 5:4-5
4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
5 For all of you are sons of light, and sons of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.


The sons of Light and sons of the Day do not walk by the light of the moon which is the light of the night.

It took Him an hour to say "Let there be light?"

And each day has a sabbath hour?

So day of Atonment ended shortly after noon?

Thousands of lambs were killed at the temple all afternoon but if the new day starts after lunch some were killed on the 15th?
 

daqq

Well-known member
Between the Two Evenings

Between the Two Evenings

It took Him an hour to say "Let there be light?"

Ehem, and yet you insist it was twenty-four hours?

And each day has a sabbath hour?

The seventh hour of every day is a Shabbat hour. Do you honestly think that when the scripture says that either Yeshua or Paul taught in the synagogues during the sabbasin they waited six days in between? Especially not in the ministry of Messiah, no, it was daily, in the daily sabbasin, the seventh hour of every day.

So day of Atonment ended shortly after noon?

Thousands of lambs were killed at the temple all afternoon but if the new day starts after lunch some were killed on the 15th?

Carnal thinking in terms of physical animal sacrifices is one of the main reasons why the Temple was already destroyed not once but twice. But yes, Josephus records that some 250,000 lambs were slain at Passover: do you expect me to believe this all happened in the twilight hour between sundown and the first stars of the night? Can you explain the meaning of the phrase "between the two evenings" found in Exodus 12:6? If you cannot then what makes you think you are correct about anything else? The same phrase is employed for the daily evening ascending offering so the phrase pertains to every day of the year because it is a perpetual daily offering as well as the morning ascending offering.

Commentaries for Exodus 12:6 clearly reveal the surety that the passage speaks of a time "between the two evenings" which is the time that the Pesach is commanded to be slain. The meaning of "between the two evenings" has forever been debated even among Jewish scholarship because of the ambiguity and because carnal man does not see any possible way that a day can have two evenings. In most modern English texts it has been progressively watered down from "between the two evenings" in just several translations, to "between the evenings" in a scant few more translations, to now the most common renderings which are, "at evening", "in the evening", or "at twilight". Here are quotes from several commentaries and I quote them also because they include comments of Josephus clearly showing the time of the Pesach sacrifice in his days was mid afternoon.

Cambridge Bible for Schools and Colleges
6. ye shall keep it up] Heb. it shall be to you for a keeping: cf. Exodus 16:23; Exodus 16:32-34, Numbers 17:10 [Heb. 25], Exodus 19:9.

the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel] Cf. for the pleonasm Numbers 14:5.
between the two evenings] one of P’s technical expressions: of the Passover, as here, Leviticus 23:5, Numbers 9:3; Numbers 9:5; Numbers 9:11; of the time for offering the evening burnt-offering, Exodus 29:39; Exodus 29:41, Numbers 28:4; Numbers 28:8; of the time for lighting the lamps in the Tabernacle, Exodus 30:8; and Exodus 16:12†. The meaning is disputed. (1) Onkelos renders בין שמשיא ‘between the two suns,’ which is explained in the Talm. to mean the time between sunset and the stars becoming visible; cf. Ibn Ezra (as cited by Kalisch), ‘We have two evenings; the first, sunset, the second, the ceasing of the light which is reflected in the clouds; and the interval between them is about an hour and 20 minutes’ (so Ges. Keil). The Italian astronomer, Schiaparelli (Astronomy in the O.T., 1905, p. 92 f.), arrives at nearly the same explanation. He supposes that the expression arose out of the custom of watching for the first appearance of the crescent moon to mark the beginning of the new month; and thinks that the ‘first’ evening would be the half-hour between sunset and the average time at which in the latitude of Palestine the crescent moon would appear, and that the ‘second’ evening would be the hour afterwards, from the appearance of the crescent to complete darkness: ‘between the two evenings’ would thus mark the time about half-an-hour after sunset. Cf. Deuteronomy 16:6, where the Passover is to be sacrificed ‘at the going down of the sun,’ i.e. at sunset. (2) Saadiah (d. a.d. 942), Rashi and Kimchi understand the ‘first’ evening to be the time when the sun first begins to decline to the west, and the shadows begin to lengthen, and the ‘second’ evening to be the beginning of night. But this interpretation gives a very forced sense to the ‘first’ evening. (3) The traditional explanation, adopted by the Pharisees and the Talmudists (Pesגḥim 61a) was that the ‘first’ evening was when the heat of the sun begins to decrease, about 3 p.m., and that the ‘second’ evening began with sunset. So Josephus (BJ. vi. 9. 3) says that in his day the Passover was sacrificed ‘from the 9th to the 11th hour’ (i.e. from 3 to 5 p.m.). The Mishna (Pesגḥim v. 1) seems to imply that the Passover was usually killed half-an-hour after the 8th hour, i.e. at 2.30 p.m.1[128]: the time however appears to have been variable; for ibid. § 3 it is merely said that if offered ‘before noon,’ it was not valid. (1) is the most natural explanation of the Heb. expression, and has also the support of Deuteronomy 16:6 : but (3) is certainly the sense that was traditionally attached to it.
[128] In Exodus 29:39; Exodus 29:41 ‘between the two evenings’ is also assigned as the time at which the daily burnt-offering was to be offered: when the two collided, the daily burnt-offering was offered an hour earlier (slaughtered, half-an-hour after the 7th hour, and sacrificed half-an-hour after the 8th hour). Pes. v. 1.
http://biblehub.com/commentaries/exodus/12-6.htm

Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers
(6) Ye shall keep it up.—Heb., ye shall have it in custody: separate it, i.e., from the flock, and keep it in or near your house for four days. During this time it could be carefully and thoroughly inspected. (Comp. Exodus 12:3.)

The whole assembly of the congregation . . . shall kill it.—Every head of a family belonging to the “congregation” was to make the necessary arrangements, to have the victim ready, and to kill it on the fourteenth day, the day of the full moon, at a time described as that “between the two evenings.” There is some doubt as to the meaning of this phrase. According to Onkelos and Aben Ezra, the first evening was at sunset, the second about an hour later, when the twilight ended and the stars came out. With this view agrees the direction in Deuteronomy 16:6 :—“Thou shalt sacrifice the passover at even, at the going down of the sun.” It is objected that, according to Josephus (Bell. Jud., vi. 9, § 3), the actual time of the sacrifice was “from the ninth to the eleventh hour”—i.e., from three o’clock to five—and that there would not have been time for the customary ceremonies during the short twilight of Palestine. The ceremonies consisted in the slaughter of the lambs at the tabernacle door, and the conveyance of the blood in basins to the altar, in order that it might be sprinkled upon it. For this operation a period of several hours’ duration would seem to have been necessary: hence the time came gradually to be extended; and when this had been done, a new interpretation of the phrase “between the evenings” grew up. The first evening was explained to begin with the decline of the sun from the zenith, and the second with the sunset; but this can scarcely have been the original idea.
http://biblehub.com/commentaries/exodus/12-6.htm

Ellicott's even gives the correct reason at the close of the commentary but then discounts the idea without any evidence to support the denial. The Cambridge commentary says the same but calls it a "forced sense" to the reading, (which only seems "forced" to the mind that does not know enough about what the scripture actually says and teaches), but at least quotes Rashi showing that it was long believed that "the going down of the sun" meant exactly as has been stated herein, and that is, when the sun has reached its apex or zenith in the sky and begins its downward trek into the western sky, (the shadows or shades of the west).

Because a calendar day ends with the seventh hour Shabbat the seventh hour of the day is therefore the evening of that day, even though it occurs in full light, (the word used for noon also means double-dual light, tsohar, the double light of midday, as used in Amos 8:9-10 which passage was fulfilled at Golgotha). If one ignores or does not understand these things then the same will neither understand the different words used for dawn and evening in the Greek N/T, (especially in the resurrection accounts), because there are quite a few different words used in the Gospel accounts due to the fact that there are two evenings and therefore multiple "dawnings", (and multiple ways to say it). What I said in my first post in this thread on page one is absolutely true. So in my understanding there is the end of a calendar day with the end of the seventh hour Shabbat, which is an evening, and there is another second evening with the end of the natural twelve hour day of light when the sun sets. The midst of this time is roundabout or through the ninth hour of a twelve hour day of light. The ninth hour is the time of the daily evening ascending offering, the time of the Pesach sacrifice, and the evening hour of prayer; and thus the ninth hour is "between the two evenings", (which if you desire to be a true literalist that is literally what it says). If therefore you begin your calendar day after sunset then you are going to be a day late in reckoning the evening time of fourteen Abib because the Pesach was not sacrificed at sunset or in twilight, (twilight being the hour or hour and a half between sunset and the first stars of the night). You will begin counting fourteen Abib after the sun has set on the night of fourteen Abib and you will proceed to sacrifice the Pesach the next day in the evening, which is indeed actually the fifteenth because the calendar day changes immediately following midday. This is precisely what we see in the Gospel accounts: Yeshua observes the Passover with his disciples exactly as prescribed and it was well before he was arrested. You however can believe what you want; makes no difference to me. :)
 

clefty

New member
Ehem, and yet you insist it was twenty-four hours?

Sure. But He wasn't speaking the whole 24...He spoke and it was so and it was declared good...then He hung out and enjoyed it and then waited for the right time for the next event...

In music the silence is as important as the note...He was creating a cadence and rhythm by which we could live... The ratio is 1/7 one of seven...the seventh being important...as in a musical scale the seventh note ends the note's progression as in an octave the last note is the same as the first but just another octave...so too He waited silently between acts to build His 1/7 world...

Amazing how this ratio is built into nature...

The Sabbath as a number 1/7 has a real patterning

1/7=0.1428571428571428571428571428571
2/7=0.2857142857142857142857142857142
3/7=0.4285714285714285714285714285714
4/7=0.5714285714285714285714285714285
5/7=0.7142857142857142857142857142857
6/7=0.8571428571428571428571428571428

do you not see a special pattern in these ratios?

a wave breaks at 1/7...for every 1 h and 7 w a new wave...

there are 7 colors we can see...we are "blinded" to the rest of the spectrum

sound is divided in a set of 7 notes most harmonious to us...the pattern repeating after the 7th

the periodic table divides the elements into 7 rows of energy

the biologist classify life into 7 levels

7 is neutral ph anything else is acidic or alkinine

7 planets visible...

the 7th remains to be remembered...

even Nature testifies...

But now you make it 1/12...

The seventh hour of every day is a Shabbat hour. Do you honestly think that when the scripture says that either Yeshua or Paul taught in the synagogues during the sabbasin they waited six days in between? Especially not in the ministry of Messiah, no, it was daily, in the daily sabbasin, the seventh hour of every day.

Well yes I honestly did think they had six days between Sabbaths. Your days are way too complicated...They didn't even have set 60 minute hours merely parts of daylight. And so the 6th hour is preparation? How again do we count to Pentecost? Seven sabbath hours would have it within a weeks time...it's quite confusing...

And yes the moon has everything to do with months as there are 12 of them per year...and each phase of the month/moon is about a week...about 4 weeks per moon

Carnal thinking in terms of physical animal sacrifices is one of the main reasons why the Temple was already destroyed not once but twice. But yes, Josephus records that some 250,000 lambs were slain at Passover: do you expect me to believe this all happened in the twilight hour between sundown and the first stars of the night? Can you explain the meaning of the phrase "between the two evenings" found in Exodus 12:6? If you cannot then what makes you think you are correct about anything else? The same phrase is employed for the daily evening ascending offering so the phrase pertains to every day of the year because it is a perpetual daily offering as well as the morning ascending offering.

Sun going down takes from high noon the rest of the day...not just within an hour is true...so sure all afternoon lambs were slaughtered...But show me were they rested everyday for a sabbath hour...which began a new calendar day...

Commentaries for Exodus 12:6 clearly reveal the surety that the passage speaks of a time "between the two evenings" which is the time that the Pesach is commanded to be slain. The meaning of "between the two evenings" has forever been debated even among Jewish scholarship because of the ambiguity and because carnal man does not see any possible way that a day can have two evenings. In most modern English texts it has been progressively watered down from "between the two evenings" in just several translations, to "between the evenings" in a scant few more translations, to now the most common renderings which are, "at evening", "in the evening", or "at twilight". Here are quotes from several commentaries and I quote them also because they include comments of Josephus clearly showing the time of the Pesach sacrifice in his days was mid afternoon.
ok so yes it took a long time to kill all the animals...but how does that make sunset the end of Friday?

Ellicott's even gives the correct reason at the close of the commentary but then discounts the idea without any evidence to support the denial. The Cambridge commentary says the same but calls it a "forced sense" to the reading, (which only seems "forced" to the mind that does not know enough about what the scripture actually says and teaches), but at least quotes Rashi showing that it was long believed that "the going down of the sun" meant exactly as has been stated herein, and that is, when the sun has reached its apex or zenith in the sky and begins its downward trek into the western sky, (the shadows or shades of the west).

Because a calendar day ends with the seventh hour Shabbat the seventh hour of the day is therefore the evening of that day, even though it occurs in full light, (the word used for noon also means double-dual light, tsohar, the double light of midday, as used in Amos 8:9-10 which passage was fulfilled at Golgotha). If one ignores or does not understand these things then the same will neither understand the different words used for dawn and evening in the Greek N/T, (especially in the resurrection accounts), because there are quite a few different words used in the Gospel accounts due to the fact that there are two evenings and therefore multiple "dawnings", (and multiple ways to say it). What I said in my first post in this thread on page one is absolutely true. So in my understanding there is the end of a calendar day with the end of the seventh hour Shabbat, which is an evening, and there is another second evening with the end of the natural twelve hour day of light when the sun sets. The midst of this time is roundabout or through the ninth hour of a twelve hour day of light. The ninth hour is the time of the daily evening ascending offering, the time of the Pesach sacrifice, and the evening hour of prayer; and thus the ninth hour is "between the two evenings", (which if you desire to be a true literalist that is literally what it says). If therefore you begin your calendar day after sunset then you are going to be a day late in reckoning the evening time of fourteen Abib because the Pesach was not sacrificed at sunset or in twilight, (twilight being the hour or hour and a half between sunset and the first stars of the night). You will begin counting fourteen Abib after the sun has set on the night of fourteen Abib and you will proceed to sacrifice the Pesach the next day in the evening, which is indeed actually the fifteenth because the calendar day changes immediately following midday. This is precisely what we see in the Gospel accounts: Yeshua observes the Passover with his disciples exactly as prescribed and it was well before he was arrested. You however can believe what you want; makes no difference to me. :)

Wait...what? Now the lambs are sacrificed on the 15th?
 

clefty

New member
In Christian history the Catholic's made war against the Sabbath keeping Christians.

So where were we?

Ah yes...the origins of Sunday keeping...

“It is well to remind the Presbyterians, Baptists, Methodists, and all other Christians, that the Bible does not support them anywhere in their observance of Sunday. Sunday is an institution of the Roman Catholic Church, and those who observe the day observe a commandment of the Catholic Church.” Priest Brady, in an address reported in The News, Elizabeth, New Jersey, March 18, 1903.


http://www.godssabbathtruth.com/catholicchurchchangedsabbathsunday.html
 

CherubRam

New member
So where were we?

Ah yes...the origins of Sunday keeping...

“It is well to remind the Presbyterians, Baptists, Methodists, and all other Christians, that the Bible does not support them anywhere in their observance of Sunday. Sunday is an institution of the Roman Catholic Church, and those who observe the day observe a commandment of the Catholic Church.” Priest Brady, in an address reported in The News, Elizabeth, New Jersey, March 18, 1903.


http://www.godssabbathtruth.com/catholicchurchchangedsabbathsunday.html

I have noticed that more and more congregations are having a Sabbath Day service.
 

CherubRam

New member
[FONT=&quot]Exodus 20:6[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]And showing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Exodus 20:8[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]“Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Exodus 31:17-16[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath,[/FONT][FONT=&quot] to observe the Sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant. It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Romans 9:6[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]It is not as though God’s word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Revelation 12:17[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Revelation 14:12[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Revelation 22:14[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life,[/FONT][FONT=&quot] and may enter in through the gates into the city. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]True and False Disciples[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Matthew 7:21[/FONT][FONT=&quot] “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me you evildoers!’ [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]God's will is that we keep His commands.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
 

CherubRam

New member
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Matthew 5:19[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]I have noticed that Matthew 5:19 is not correctly translated. The word (THESE) follows the word (commands) in the original text. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]“of these” should read “of the” ( TWN / TON ) [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]“These” is referring to people, not the commands. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]5130[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=&quot] / toutwn / touton: genitive case plural masculine or neuter of outoV - houtos [/FONT][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]3778[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=&quot]; of (from or concerning) these (persons or things):--such, their, these (things), they, this sort, those.[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]See Matthew 5:19 link:[/FONT][FONT=&quot] http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/Greek_Index.htm[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]Matthew 5:19[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]This is how Matthew 5:19 should read:[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of the commands, and those teaching others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven…[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
 
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clefty

New member

I have noticed that more and more congregations are having a Sabbath Day service.

That is a start...I guess...

But it is a lifestyle and an entire day event not just a hour of power or so...

Morning services are also in tradition of Sunday morning celebrations...much is yet to be reformed and restored not just from papist ways...
 

CherubRam

New member
[FONT=&quot]This is how Matthew 5:19 should read:[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of the commands, and those teaching others accordingly, will be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever practices and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
 

clefty

New member
[FONT=&quot]This is how Matthew 5:19 should read:[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of the commands, and those teaching others accordingly, will be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever practices and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]

We are fortunate to have been given clear instruction that if we love Him we will keep these...."sweet the small stuff"

Love causes a desire to please and do exactly what we are asked...and more

I appreciate the understanding that more than being commandments badly translated into the future perfect imperative case, these sayings or "10 words" are descriptions as to what occurs where the "I am" is...

"kill?" " No"
"steal?" "No"
"fornicate?" "No" etc

Even secular relationships deal with the "least of these"

As in "honey I mopped the kitchen floor...and inside its closet ..."

Or "I turned the light off in the basement"

These "least of these" iare what show we really care...

And since you live there, it no longer is a chore or a "yoke" but something you really want done yourself, as it benefits you...

The small stuff matters...

Oh well...

yes good work...so much is lost in translation...and to deceive
 

CherubRam

New member
We are fortunate to have been given clear instruction that if we love Him we will keep these...."sweet the small stuff"

Love causes a desire to please and do exactly what we are asked...and more

I appreciate the understanding that more than being commandments badly translated into the future perfect imperative case, these sayings or "10 words" are descriptions as to what occurs where the "I am" is...

"kill?" " No"
"steal?" "No"
"fornicate?" "No" etc

Even secular relationships deal with the "least of these"

As in "honey I mopped the kitchen floor...and inside its closet ..."

Or "I turned the light off in the basement"

These "least of these" iare what show we really care...

And since you live there, it no longer is a chore or a "yoke" but something you really want done yourself, as it benefits you...

The small stuff matters...

Oh well...

yes good work...so much is lost in translation...and to deceive

I believe that Matt 5:19 was deliberately mistranslated to deny keeping the Sabbath.
 

clefty

New member
I believe that Matt 5:19 was deliberately mistranslated to deny keeping the Sabbath.

Could be...

Maybe that is why papists are so quick to boast they wrote the bible...

They not only took great care to minimize sabbath keeping to replace it with Sunday keeping but they also had to make sure that Sunday keeping was not within scripture so as to be able to claim it was a sign of their power and a mark of their authority...

History affirms their diabolical success...
 
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CherubRam

New member
Could be...

Maybe that is why papists are so quick to boast they wrote the bible...

They not only took great care to minimize sabbath keeping to replace it with Sunday keeping but they also had to make sure that Sunday keeping was not within scripture so as to be able to claim it was a sign of their power and a mark of their authority...

History affirms their diabolical success...

It is very unlikely for the translators to have made that mistake, it had to been deliberate.
 

steko

Well-known member
LIFETIME MEMBER
[FONT="]This is how Matthew 5:19 should read:[/FONT][/B][FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the [B]least[/B] [B]of[/B] [B]the[/B][B] commands,[/B] and those teaching others accordingly, will be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever practices and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.[/FONT][FONT="][/FONT]


Still reading someone else's mail, I see.

Rom 15:8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:

 

Ktoyou

Well-known member
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And Jesus is a traditional Jewish person, he's the Lord of the Sabbath.

If Jesus was so traditionally Jewish, then the high priests of the Jews would not have insisted on him being crucified, and pout to death. Jesus moved all humanity beyond Judaism and that is what Christianity is, the coming of God's promise to do what only He understood. The Jews did not like it, because they wanted a warrior and another king David, which was not God's plan, rather what the Jews had imagined.

Explain that one? do you think the high priest were not real Jews, or maybe they were Romans, pretending to be Jews and scripture got it wrong? maybe you assume the real Jews were not the the same people who demanded Jesus' death?
 

jamie

New member
LIFETIME MEMBER
If Jesus was so traditionally Jewish, then the high priests of the Jews would not have insisted on him being crucified, and pout to death.

The immortal Creator became mortal so he could die for his creation.

We only have to die once.
 

Ktoyou

Well-known member
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The immortal Creator became mortal so he could die for his creation.

We only have to die once.

You are confusing Jesus with being an ordinary human again, you forget, ir5 reject the hypostatic union when Jesus is also 100% God.

You would seem more rational if you made it clear you are Jewish.
 
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