So that's two days of affliction...the evening beginning the 9th all that night then day of the 9th into the evening ending the 9th and then the beginning of the 10th its night and all that day...two days...odd
How important is the Sabbath?
- Thread starter CherubRam
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So that's two days of affliction...the evening beginning the 9th all that night then day of the 9th into the evening ending the 9th and then the beginning of the 10th its night and all that day...two days...odd
I already know when that day is this year, (and yes, I have also observed that way in the past so you have now proven yourself a false accuser), but that is essentially Talmudic Judaism and not according to what is written as already shown in several posts. So you feel that following Talmudic Judaism gives you the right to play God and judge others, as you just did to me on the previous page: that explains a lot. Here it is again more in depth since you ignored what was already said the first time:
Leviticus 16:29-31
29 And this shall be a statute for ever unto you: that in the seventh month, on the tenth day of the month, you shall humble your souls, and do no work at all, whether it be one of your own country, or a stranger that sojourns among you:
30 For on that day shall the priest make an atonement for you, to cleanse you, that you may be clean from all your sins before YHWH.
31 It shall be a Shabbat Shabbaton unto you, and you shall humble your souls, by a statute for ever.
Leviticus 23:27-32
27 Also on the tenth day of this seventh month there shall be a day of atonement: it shall be an holy convocation unto you; and you shall humble your souls, and offer an offering made by fire unto YHWH.
28 And you shall do no work in that same day: for it is a day of atonement, to make an atonement for you before YHWH your Elohey.
29 For whatsoever soul it be that shall not be humbled in that same day, the same shall be cut off from among his people.
30 And whatsoever soul it be that does any work in that same day, the same soul will I destroy from among his people.
31 You shall do no manner of work: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations in all your dwellings.
32 It shall be unto you a Shabbat Shabbaton, and you shall humble your souls: in the ninth day of the month at evening, from evening unto evening, you shall shabat your Shabbat.
And "Wednesday" is clearly NOT a Shabbat Shabbaton weekly Shabbat:
Exodus 16:23-26
23 And he said unto them, This is that which YHWH has said, Tomorrow is the Shabbat Shabbaton, holy unto YHWH: bake that which you will bake today, and seethe what you will seethe; and that which remains over lay up for you to be kept until the morning.
24 And they laid it up till the morning, as Moshe commanded: and it did not stink, neither was there any worm therein.
25 And Moshe said, Eat that today; for today is the day of Shabbat unto YHWH: you shall not find it in the field.
26 Six days you shall gather it, but on the seventh day is the Shabbat; in it there shall be none.
Exodus 31:15
15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the Shabbat Shabbaton, holy unto YHWH: whosoever does any work in the Shabbat day, dying he shall die.
Exodus 35:2
2 Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a Shabbat Shabbaton unto YHWH: whosoever does work therein shall die.
Your observance of Talmudic Judaism puts you and your calendar outside the clear emphatic statements and commandments of the Torah of Elohim: and in addition your judgment on the previous page, ignoring the clear emphatic statements of Yeshua from Matthew 7:1-5, and even Paul from 1Cor 11:31-32 and Romans 2:1-3, places you outside the doctrine of both Yeshua and even Paul; and therefore completely outside the entire Word of Elohim.
Indeed, Elohim has spoken . . . :chuckle:
It is one day as has been shown over and over again; from evening time until evening time of the next day, from the evening of the ninth day until or up to the evening time of the tenth day. The final hour of the tenth day of the seventh month is a Shabbat in its Shabbat, (as in Num 28:10 YLT which speaks of every seventh day), because a Shabbat in its Shabbat is the seventh hour of the seventh day, (another reason why Yom Kippurim is ALWAYS supposed to fall on a weekly Shabbat Shabbaton if it is to be properly observed). And as for evening time the scripture clearly says that evening time is when the women go out to draw water, (again, Gen 24:11), and scripture fairly clearly portrays that time as being about the sixth hour of the day, (again, John 4:6-7). These things are not hard to understand although they may be difficult to accept if one already has preconceived notions about how these things should be in his or her own mind. But if one does not understand these simple foundational things from the scripture then the same will not understand the Passover and why the Yhudim in the Gospel accounts were apparently five hours late in their observance of the Passover. They may or may not have been late in those times but that would indeed be the results today if the way modern Judaism counts a day was the same then as it is now. That is because if you adhere to a calendar day the way that Judaism of today observes a calendar day then you have MISSED the true evening period of fourteen Abib and end up a full day late when it comes to Passover observance because you have shifted the true evening time to the next day by offsetting it five hours from its true time. As was said earlier to the other poster: the Passover was not slain in twilight, nor after sunset, but rather several hours earlier, "between the evenings", which is in the time frame of what most today would call the mid-afternoon time of day. If anyone truly desires to understand then all that is necessary is to relate what has already been said into modern terminology for practical purposes: simply count one day, starting from 1:00PM, and continue counting through until 1:00PM of the next day, and that is not difficult to understand for anyone with eyes and ears willing to see and hear. In this way you indeed have an evening first, (then all night), and then a morning, and that is a day ending with the seventh hour Shabbat in each and every day, (and the new day commencing with the eighth hour in full light). The only real problem is that this is a completely different way of counting days, so it simply feels foreign at first, and generally gets rejected offhand without actually having been researched by the one doing the rejecting. But this is why the evening period of the ninth day is mentioned in Lev 23:32, for an evening and a morning are a day, as already shown, (Gen 1:5, 8, 13, 19, 23, 31).
Leviticus 23:27 Also the tenth day of this seventh month shall be the Day of Atonement.
The tenth day begins the evening that ends the ninth day.
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Exodus 16 is not about the Day of Atonement.
Lev 13:27On the seventh day the priest is to examine that person, and if it is spreading in the skin, the priest shall pronounce them unclean; it is a defiling skin disease.
Easy with that sword...you might cut yourself...
:doh: The Day of Atonement is not about leprosy.
Yes it does have everything to do with Yom Kippurim; that is how important the Shabbat Shabbaton weekly Shabbat is, (and the topic of this thread). And we clearly read not once but twice, as quoted above, (Lev 16:31 and Lev 23:32), that Yom Kippurim is always to be a Shabbat Shabbaton which is clearly a weekly Shabbat as shown in all the passages quoted also in the previous post including Exodus 16:23. So not only do you break the commandments of Yeshua from Matthew 7:1-5 by passing your judgment on me and essentially calling me a liar but the whole reason for your doing so is because I do not break the Torah with you and observe Yom Kippurim on a WEDNESDAY,
rotfl, which is forbidden in the Torah. You are just as blind as Clete, who passed judgment by calling me a lunatic, who also speaks against the scripture and denies the Testimony of Yeshua by passing such a judgment against one he does not know. Yet here you are, a true lunatic-moonstruck follower of the moon, walking according to the lesser light of the night in your observance of the DAYS, (also against the Testimony of both Yeshua and Paul), and Clete says nothing because he has no clue what a true lunatic-moonstruck walker of the night concerns according to the scripture. There are many arguments over the calendar in the Gospel accounts: you simply cannot see them. We do not walk according to the night or by the light of the moon as you and yours do: and your evil deeds right here in this thread prove what I say in the kingdom of Elohim.The truth of scripture is a dead horse to you? As I said, you are completely outside the Torah, the writings, and the Testimony of Yeshua, and in addition you are not actually following first century Judaism but rather a lunisolar calendar that was not even codified or ratified until the fourth century, by Hillel II, (which is why it is called the Hillel Calendar). First century Judaism clearly did not agree with your interpretation of the day set aside for Yom Kippurim, that is, the tenth day of the seventh month.
Quote:]The Jewish calendar is primarily lunar, with each month beginning on the new moon, when the first sliver of moon becomes visible, after the dark of the moon. In ancient times, the new months used to be determined by observation. When people observed the new moon, they would notify the Sanhedrin. When the Sanhedrin heard testimony from two independent, reliable eyewitnesses that the new moon occurred on a certain date, they would declare the Rosh Chodesh (first of the month) and send out messengers to tell people when the month began.
With the decline of the Sanhedrin, calendrical matters were decided by the Palestinian patriarchate (the official heads of the Jewish community under Roman rule). Jewish persecution under Constantius II (reigned 337-361) and advances in Astronomical science led to the gradual replacement of observation by calculation. According to Hai ben Sherira (died 1038)--the head of a leading Talmudic academy in Babylonia--Hillel II, a Palestinian patriarch, introduced a fixed a continuous calendar in 359 CE. A summary of the regulations governing the present calendar is provided by Maimonides, the great medieval philosopher and legalist, in his Code: Sanctification of the New Moon, chapters 6-10.[15]
In the fourth century, Hillel II established a fixed calendar based on mathematical and astronomical calculations. This calendar, still in use, standardized the length of months and the addition of months over the course of a 19 year cycle, so that the lunar calendar realigns with the solar years. Adar II is added in the 3rd, 6th, 8th, 11th, 14th, 17th and 19th years of the cycle. The new year that began Thursday, October 2, 1997 AD (Jewish calendar year 5758 AM) was the first year of the cycle.[End Quote.
http://www.betemunah.org/calendar.html
The Old Greek Septuagint which was translated by real Yhudim some three hundred years before the advent of Messiah, (especially the Torah portions about 270-250BC), makes this point very clear when it comes to Lev 16:31 by the wording which was chosen:
Leviticus 16:31 OG LXX
31 σαββατα σαββατων αναπαυσις αυτη εσται υμιν και ταπεινωσετε τας ψυχας υμων νομιμον αιωνιον
"σαββατα σαββατων αναπαυσις" = "a Sabbath of the Sabbaths of Rest"
(Shabbat Shabbatot Shabbaton)
There is no doubt that a Shabbat of the Shabbatot Shabbaton means one of the weekly Sabbaths.
:carryon:
Awe . . . so you do not want to play God and Judge today like you did yesterday?
Why am I not surprised? (since Yom Kippurim was now yesterday on my calendar). :chuckle:
Where is Olam Haba?
Lukos 20:34-36 OJB
34 And Rebbe Melech HaMoshiach said to them, The banim of the Olam Hazeh marry and are given in marriage:
35 But the ones having been considered worthy to attain to the Olam HaBah and the Techiyas HaMesim neither marry nor are given in marriage.
36 For neither is it possible any longer for them to die, for they are like malachim and they are bnei haElohim, being bnei haTechiyas HaMesim.
Olam Ha-Zeh = "this age"
Olam Ha-Bah = "the age to come"
Yes it does have everything to do with Yom Kippurim; that is how important the Shabbat Shabbaton weekly Shabbat is, (and the topic of this thread). And we clearly read not once but twice, as quoted above, (Lev 16:31 and Lev 23:32), that Yom Kippurim is always to be a Shabbat Shabbaton which is clearly a weekly Shabbat as shown in all the passages quoted also in the previous post including Exodus 16:23. So not only do you break the commandments of Yeshua from Matthew 7:1-5 by passing your judgment on me and essentially calling me a liar but the whole reason for your doing so is because I do not break the Torah with you and observe Yom Kippurim on a WEDNESDAY,
That He repeats what a Sabbath is seems redundant. Could it be a special sabbath as it is not a weekly one? A sabbath within sabbaths...?
In a floating calendar wouldn't the 10th end up on different days? Even now there are rules of postponement to prevent back to back sabbaths.
Some start their month with a sighting of the new moon and count sabbaths as the four phases 7 14 21 28 days from sighting of the new crescent...the 10th would be in the midst of those weeks hence the "it will be as a Sabbath unto you"
So your day of atonement was yesterday? Which calendar then is this? Are your other holidays different to floating fixed?
And am I getting you right the day ends/begins at noon?
So afflict yourself a half daylight portion?
Many variations out here...not too familiar with yours
And we are to judge...test all things...just know we will be judged...we are to judge the world...even will judge Angels...and we certainly are to use scripture to correct and reprove our fellow believers..kick 'em out if necessary
"We don't have a Sabbath day. We have a Sabbath Lord." ~ Gino Geraci
Prominent Rabbi Claims to Know Cause of Recent Catastrophes in Israel
Also see:
Lyin' NASA
Planet X
"Truth is hate to those who hate the truth." ~ Bob Enyart Mk 9:41, Dan 10:13, Ps 105:15, Ro 14:4, Mk 6:11, Is 45:24, 54:17, Re 12:10, 12, Mt 13:7, Jud 1:9
Prominent Rabbi Claims to Know Cause of Recent Catastrophes in Israel
Also see:
Lyin' NASA
Clever...reminds me of a snake that moves in two opposite directions while headed in a third.
This Sabbath Lord I imagine did away with the very thing that gave Him authority? Like London gives to the lord of London or the rings give to lord of the rings...It would be silly for any of these lords to do away with that which gives them authority right?
Even after the fall in the garden He cursed everything He made...the earth, the plants and animals, mankind...but the Sabbath remained untouched...
It gives Him authority as creator...unique from other gods that claim the same thing...
Please remind that Geraci dude that the rest He speaks of is yet to come when the work and persecutions are done and over...what remains for His people is only a Sabbath keeping...there is much work to do for the coming kingdom yet...
Some are asleep in Him now...but His eternal rest is yet to come...
A chodesh is a month, not a moon, even though it is sometimes rendered "new moon", (that is an interpretive choice made by translators). Months have nothing to do with the moon because the year and days are regulated by the sun. A chodesh is very simply a month. As for Shabbat and my calendar it is all explained in the link and as shown therein the daily seventh hour Shabbat is the primary Shabbat of creation, not the weekly seventh day Shabbat; for Elohim spoke and it was, thus we have six hours of spoken Word creation and there is no night therein, as I said already herein from the beginning, because Elohim did not cease, desist, or REST, but rather continued to WORK by creative Word for six yamim-hours of spoken Word creation. If you keep the daily seventh hour Shabbat, from the sixth hour of the day through the seventh hour of the day, (which most people now call "lunch time"), then the Shabbat which is clearly spelled out in John 4 is essentially an eternal continuous Shabbat; for as the seventh hour passes in your location in the world, the seventh hour begins in the next time zone. And no doubt there is someone in that time zone worshiping the Father in spirit and in truth, (whether they know it is the Shabbat or not), and when their daily seventh hour Shabbat is done the Shabbat commences in the next time zone. Thus, at any given time, there is a seventh hour Shabbat in progress somewhere upon the earth in one of the twenty-four times zones and it is a continual uninterrupted perpetual Shabbat for as long as the earth endures. The seventh hour Shabbat is a never ending Shabbat: it is for all intents and purposes eternal. This cannot be said of a weekly Shabbat because you have a break of six twenty-four hour days in between Shabbatot. So as long as one is observing the daily seventh hour Shabbat, (which are called the sabbasi or the sabbasin in the Greek New Testament), then the weekly Shabbat is secondary to the primary and may be impacted by a change in the calendar. And in fact, since the poleshift at Golgotha and the new order of creation, the weekly seventh day Shabbat cannot be maintained on the same day of the week while at the same time upholding all the commandments concerning the feasts, (one of those being that Yom Kippurim is to always be on a weekly Shabbat). Therefore it is the calendar which must change. My calendar is not tied to the modern calendar but to the Vernal Equinox just as it was in the first century. The problem with the lunisolar calendar of modern Judaism is that it clearly defines the weekly Shabbat and yet does not conform to what is written by insuring that Yom Kippur always falls on its own clearly defined weekly Shabbat. In other words it really does not matter whether you call the Shabbat "Saturday" or "Wednesday" or any other name or number; but if you call a certain day of the week the Shabbat then Yom Kippurim is commanded to fall on that day, but in the lunisolar calendar of Judaism it does not. This is primarily because they no longer recognize the critical importance of the daily seventh hour Shabbat and therefore uphold the sanctity of the weekly Shabbat and yet still cannot make their own calendar work because they use the moon to decide when the months and therefore the year begins and ends.
These passages have multiple layers of meaning:
John 11:9-10
9 Yeshua answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day? If anyone walks in the day, he stumbles not, because he sees the light of this world.
10 But if anyone walks in the night, he stumbles, because there is no light in him.
What or WHO is the Day? He is the light of the world. Therefore Yeshua says that those who walk by the night have no light in them. And no doubt this also has to do with the calendar as well as other things; for he clearly speaks of the twelve hours of the day, (which he receives not from tradition but from Numbers 7 in its overall context).
John 12:35-36
35 Then Yeshua said to them, Yet a little while is the light with you: walk while you have the light, lest darkness come upon you: for he that walks in darkness knows not where he goes.
36 While you have light, believe in the light, that you may be the sons of light. These things Yeshua spoke, and departed, and did hide himself from them.
1 Thessalonians 5:4-5
4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
5 For all of you are sons of light, and sons of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
The sons of Light and sons of the Day do not walk by the light of the moon which is the light of the night.
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"We don't have a Sabbath day. We have a Sabbath Lord." ~ Gino Geraci
Prominent Rabbi Claims to Know Cause of Recent Catastrophes in Israel
Also see:
Lyin' NASA
Planet X"Truth is hate to those who hate the truth." ~ Bob Enyart Mk 9:41, Dan 10:13, Ps 105:15, Ro 14:4, Mk 6:11, Is 45:24, 54:17, Re 12:10, 12, Mt 13:7, Jud 1:9
Interesting that the "Prominent Rabbi" article starts off quoting Nehemiah 13:18 right at the top of the page.
Nehemiah 13:15-21 KJV
15 In those days saw I in Judah some treading wine presses on the sabbath, and bringing in sheaves, and lading donkeys; [forum language censor] as also wine, grapes, and figs, and all manner of burdens, which they brought into Jerusalem on the sabbath day: and I testified against them in the day wherein they sold victuals.
16 There dwelt men of Tyre also therein, which brought fish, and all manner of ware, and sold on the sabbath unto the children of Judah, and in Jerusalem.
17 Then I contended with the nobles of Judah, and said unto them, What evil thing is this that ye do, and profane the sabbath day?
18 Did not your fathers thus, and did not our God bring all this evil upon us, and upon this city? yet ye bring more wrath upon Israel by profaning the sabbath.
19 And it came to pass, that when the gates of Jerusalem began to be dark [tsalal - to shade] before the sabbath, I commanded that the gates should be shut, and charged that they should not be opened till after the sabbath: and some of my servants set I at the gates, that there should no burden be brought in on the sabbath day.
20 So the merchants and sellers of all kind of ware lodged without Jerusalem once or twice.
21 Then I testified against them, and said unto them, Why lodge ye about the wall? if ye do so again, I will lay hands on you. From that time forth came they no more on the sabbath.
When the sun had reached its zenith or apex in the sky overhead, and had begun its downward trek into the shadows or shades of the west, (Nehemiah 13:19), Nehemiah commanded that the gates be shut for the Shabbat. And look what the author says here concerning the opening of the gates:
Nehemiah 7:1-3
1 Now it came to pass, when the wall was built, and I had set up the doors, and the porters and the singers and the Levites were appointed,
2 That I gave my brother Hanani, and Hananiah the ruler of the palace, charge over Jerusalem: for he was a faithful man, and feared God above many.
3 And I said unto them, Let not the gates of Jerusalem be opened until the sun be hot; and while they stand by, let them shut the doors, and bar them: and appoint watches of the inhabitants of Jerusalem, every one in his watch, and every one to be over against his house.
The sun waxing hot is the same time of day that the manna melted away:
Exodus 16:21-26 KJV
21 And they gathered it every morning, every man according to his eating: and when the sun waxed hot, it melted.
22 And it came to pass, that on the sixth day they gathered twice as much bread, two omers for one man: and all the rulers of the congregation came and told Moses.
23 And he said unto them, This is that which the LORD hath said, To morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath unto the LORD: bake that which ye will bake to day, and seethe that ye will seethe; and that which remaineth over lay up for you to be kept until the morning.
24 And they laid it up till the morning, as Moses bade: and it did not stink, neither was there any worm therein.
25 And Moses said, Eat that to day; for to day is a sabbath unto the LORD: to day ye shall not find it in the field.
26 Six days [yamim] ye shall gather it; but on the seventh day, [yom] which is the sabbath, in it there shall be none.