How free should free speech be?
- Thread starter jzeidler
- Start date
What do you mean by this one? And who gets to decide what is just or unjust?
jzeidler
New member
Actually you can. You'll just get looked at like your retarded or the cops might fine you. Either way you're free to do it and must be free. And your second argument is absolutely false.
jzeidler
New member
PureX
Well-known member
What I mean is slander, and it's the courts that decide that.
But besides slander, it's also illegal to use words to incite harm/crime (meaning panic or violence).
PureX
Well-known member
This sophistry is pointless. The fine is the result of the illegality. The fact that we are able to commit crimes is irrelevant to their illegality.
So what are you hear to discuss? The legality of free speech or it's physical properties?
Not always the case, in fact free speech exists to protect that which you may find harmful, inciting, & provocative.
PureX
Well-known member
As with all laws, reason must be applied and the intent must be considered. "Inciting" people to march illegally in protest against gay marriage (for example), and inciting people to commit violence against gay people who want to get married, are two very different instances of using speech to incite illegal behavior. Naturally, they would and should result in very different legal judgments.
PureX
Well-known member
It is. But I think it's one of those instances where the consequences depend greatly on the intent and the result of the act.
free speech
good topic
and
a hard one to address
there are always consequences
at what point are you responsible for what you say?
we know
what goes into your mouth cannot harm you
but
what comes out can
so
you are free
but
you will suffer the consequences
good topic
and
a hard one to address
there are always consequences
at what point are you responsible for what you say?
we know
what goes into your mouth cannot harm you
but
what comes out can
so
you are free
but
you will suffer the consequences
PureX
Well-known member
Who else, then? The guy with the biggest mouth? Or the biggest gun?
People who blindly hate "government" are fools. We humans can't live together without it. And we can't live at all without each other. So if nothing else, government is a necessity for human life. And besides that, government provides us the means of focussing and organizing ourselves to further our own best interests and well-being. Without that means, we would still be living like dumb animals. And when our governments fail, that's exactly what we become.
oatmeal
Well-known member
Freedom and the responsibility of using that freedom go hand in hand.
As long as a person is willing to take responsibility for their actions or speech, they are free to exercise that freedom.
There maybe rewards, there may be consequences for acting and speaking freely.
jzeidler
New member
Granted, but what about in a corrupt government that says you can't talk about Jesus or against the government ever? Do you really want big government telling you what you can and cannot say?
PureX
Well-known member
People get the government they deserve. If they are cowards, they will be ruled by bullies. If they're greedy, they'll be ruled by the rich. If they're bigots they'll be ruled by fascists. And if they're selfish and dishonest by nature, they will be ruled by criminals.
Our governments are direct reflections of ourselves.
If we want better government, first we have to know what it looks like, and then we have to fight to bring it about. And fight all the more to keep it once we get it.
jzeidler
New member
Honestly dude I agree with that. It's just really sad that many Americans are cowards. I don't see much fight in the American people any more. They would rather have comfort and not have anyone be able to hurt their feelings than stand up for what's right.
PureX
Well-known member
We seem to like to fight with each other, well enough. And God knows we have enough guns! The problem is that we're too ignorant and egotistical to see who the real culprits, here, are.
If the oligarchs don't have Bernie Sanders killed before the 2016 election cycle swings into high gear, I'm going to be very interested to see how the American people react to seeing and hearing him tell the truth about who's running this country and how bad things have gotten in that respect. Will we face the ugly truth? Or will we bury ourselves in denial and phony nationalistic rhetoric, yet again?
Re: Shouting "Fire!" in a crowded theater.
The oft paraphrased Holmes quote is essentially saying that the 1st Amendment doesn't protect using speech to harm others with a known falsehood, to in essence advance criminal activity. Outside of that we are free to speak our minds.
I think you're conflating ability to do something contrary to the law with the right or freedom to do the thing. So you could say you're free to do anything at all, but there are consequences. But that's not what free speech is or how it's addressed at law.
The oft paraphrased Holmes quote is essentially saying that the 1st Amendment doesn't protect using speech to harm others with a known falsehood, to in essence advance criminal activity. Outside of that we are free to speak our minds.
ok fair enough. :up: