Right Divider
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How about discussing the actual topic of this thread?
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How does one determine, using the scientific method, that the earth is billions of years old?
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Right Divider
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Continuing to make false claims and, of course, without any evidence whatsoever.
Baloney.
Baloney. The "Cambrian explosion" is simply a layer in the deposits of sediment caused by the Flood.
Fake news. The "Big Bang" never happened.
Attempting to quote the Bible; how cute.
Nowhere in these scriptures does it say anything about "creation prior to the universe". That's just something that you've tried to invent.
Mark 10:6 (AKJV/PCE)
(10:6) But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female.
You are trying to fudge the facts.
P.S. Get on the topic or got out of this thread.
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As RD said:
Nowhere in these scriptures does it say anything about "creation prior to the universe". That's just something that you've tried to invent.
Mark 10:6 (AKJV/PCE)
(10:6) But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female.
The creation.
Noun.
Refers to the universe, the earth, the seas, and everything within them.
Man was made at the beginning of it, not billions of years after the beginning.
Right Divider
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Right Divider
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Talk about begging the question!
Right Divider
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That is incorrect, the firmament OF HEAVEN is the sky. The firmament in verses 6-8 is NOT the sky. It is the crust of the earth that separated the waters above and below.
Right Divider
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God called the firmament heaven, yes. What's the problem? Believe God, I do.
The firmament called "Heaven" is the crust of the earth.
The "firmament of the heavens" is the sky, because the sky is something in which the stars were set, giving the appearance of them being "firm."
I will address this and your previous posts in more detail when I have the time.
Right Divider
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7djengo7
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To what exactly are you referring by your word, "existence"? Or are you just uttering mumbojumbo?
Right Divider
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Regardless of the exact quantities of the division of the waters, you are claiming that there is a significant amount of water "above the sun, moon and stars". That is grossly incorrect.
Gen 1:14-19 (AKJV/PCE)
(1:14) ¶ And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: (1:15) And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. (1:16) And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: [he made] the stars also. (1:17) And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, (1:18) And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that [it was] good. (1:19) And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
Right Divider
Body part
Rather, what it means is "something spread or pounded out, like metal."
As I said in my previous post, the "firmament of the heavens" refers to the sky.
But the firmament called "Heaven" refers to the crust of the earth. This firmament was created "in the midst of the waters, dividing the waters below from the waters above.
Guess where those waters were before God created that firmament?
Earth.
Genesis 1:2.
God.
God called the firmament that He created in the midst of the waters that were on earth "Heaven."
Rather, there are more than three.
But the relevant ones here are "the sky" and "where God lives."
Do you think God lived somewhere else after He created the earth?
I don't, because the Bible tells us that Adam walked with God in the Garden.
The firmament, where God created everything on Earth, was called heaven, and the dry land was called "Earth," and the waters gathered ABOVE the firmament were called Seas.
The waters BELOW the firmament called Heaven were "the deep" mentioned in verse 2.
Earth was literally Heaven, a paradise.
This is an ad hoc explanation. There are no verses that say nor that "God cleared the sky..."
Except that there were no oceans, only Seas. And the Seas were above the firmament called Heaven, "under the heavens."
There is. We can get a rough estimate, at least, with verse 6:
"Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters."
"Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together into one place and let the dry land appear."
justatruthseeker
Member
While ignoring changes to decay rates in a universe increasing in acceleration….
While proclaiming their belief in Relativity…..
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justatruthseeker
Member
Why then, does Genesis 1: 8a state, “And God called the expanse heaven” ? Here are two interpretations:
a. “The expanse” meant the atmosphere or outer space.
b. “The expanse” meant “heaven”—where God dwelt—the original paradise. Recall that God “walked” and “talked” with Adam (Genesis 3:8–9), so heaven was originally on the Earth—on the Earth’s crust.
If “heaven” meant atmosphere or outer space, then the Septuagint and Vulgate translators incorrectly associated solidness with it. Notice also that the similarities of raqia ((ayqirf) with baqia ((ayqib@f) and raqa ((qarf) support the second interpretation. [See page 534.] If raqia (expanse or firmament) always means atmosphere or outer space, five questions, or apparent textual contradictions, arise.
Question 1: Why was the word raqia followed by the phrase “of the heavens” in Genesis 1:14, 15, 17, and 20? That would be redundant.
Question 2: If raqia implies a canopy, why wasn’t one of the three Hebrew words that clearly means “canopy” used?
Question 3: Genesis 1:1 says that the heavens were created on the first day.19 However, if raqia always means “heaven” (atmosphere or outer space), then Genesis 1: 8a says heaven was created on the second day. Also, Genesis 1: 8a defines heaven after the word “heavens” was first used in Genesis 1:1. Normally, a word’s meaning is understood from the context of its first usage.
After struggling to understand Genesis 1:8a for 30 years, I described several possible interpretations of Genesis 1:8a in the 7th edition (2001) of this book. In 2005, I received independent letters from two pastors proposing an explanation.22 Before Adam’s fall, Earth was a paradise; in a sense, it was “heaven on Earth.” Therefore, God called the firmament (Earth’s crust) heaven. (Notice: God did not call heaven “the firmament.”) Each pastor provided different biblical reasons for his view, but both maintained that our difficulty in understanding Genesis 1:8a results largely from our inability to imagine the original paradise. If man had not fallen, no one would have difficulty with the fact that God called the Earth “heaven.”
Confirmation of this is in Randy Alcorn’s outstanding book, Heaven (2004).23 His case is so detailed, voluminous, and strong that any attempt to summarize it here would not do justice to his work. As Alcorn points out, nonbiblical stereotypes of heaven have crept into our Christian culture. I believe this accounts for much of our confusion over Genesis 1:8a. (Every Christian should study what the Bible actually says.) Earth was created with the intention that it would be heaven. The fall temporarily delayed that plan, and the Earth was cursed. Alcorn also discusses the future “new Earth.”
Those who reject this proposed understanding of expanseand Genesis 1:8a should carefully weigh the two choices.
HPT
a. “The expanse” meant the atmosphere or outer space.
b. “The expanse” meant “heaven”—where God dwelt—the original paradise. Recall that God “walked” and “talked” with Adam (Genesis 3:8–9), so heaven was originally on the Earth—on the Earth’s crust.
If “heaven” meant atmosphere or outer space, then the Septuagint and Vulgate translators incorrectly associated solidness with it. Notice also that the similarities of raqia ((ayqirf) with baqia ((ayqib@f) and raqa ((qarf) support the second interpretation. [See page 534.] If raqia (expanse or firmament) always means atmosphere or outer space, five questions, or apparent textual contradictions, arise.
Question 1: Why was the word raqia followed by the phrase “of the heavens” in Genesis 1:14, 15, 17, and 20? That would be redundant.
Question 2: If raqia implies a canopy, why wasn’t one of the three Hebrew words that clearly means “canopy” used?
Question 3: Genesis 1:1 says that the heavens were created on the first day.19 However, if raqia always means “heaven” (atmosphere or outer space), then Genesis 1: 8a says heaven was created on the second day. Also, Genesis 1: 8a defines heaven after the word “heavens” was first used in Genesis 1:1. Normally, a word’s meaning is understood from the context of its first usage.
After struggling to understand Genesis 1:8a for 30 years, I described several possible interpretations of Genesis 1:8a in the 7th edition (2001) of this book. In 2005, I received independent letters from two pastors proposing an explanation.22 Before Adam’s fall, Earth was a paradise; in a sense, it was “heaven on Earth.” Therefore, God called the firmament (Earth’s crust) heaven. (Notice: God did not call heaven “the firmament.”) Each pastor provided different biblical reasons for his view, but both maintained that our difficulty in understanding Genesis 1:8a results largely from our inability to imagine the original paradise. If man had not fallen, no one would have difficulty with the fact that God called the Earth “heaven.”
Confirmation of this is in Randy Alcorn’s outstanding book, Heaven (2004).23 His case is so detailed, voluminous, and strong that any attempt to summarize it here would not do justice to his work. As Alcorn points out, nonbiblical stereotypes of heaven have crept into our Christian culture. I believe this accounts for much of our confusion over Genesis 1:8a. (Every Christian should study what the Bible actually says.) Earth was created with the intention that it would be heaven. The fall temporarily delayed that plan, and the Earth was cursed. Alcorn also discusses the future “new Earth.”
Those who reject this proposed understanding of expanseand Genesis 1:8a should carefully weigh the two choices.
HPT
Right Divider
Body part
RSR has a copy of the book that has the broken links fixed: https://hpt.rsr.org/onlinebook/FAQ36.html
justatruthseeker
Member
Thanks!