ECT How Can the Preterists be so Blind?

[iamaberean]

So when the Lord Jesus speaks of judging "all nations" when He returns to the earth here really means "one nation," not all the nations:

"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left... Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels" (Mt.25:31-33, 41).​

As I said earlier, the only thing which the preterists can do really well is to the pervert what the Scriptures actually says!

Jerry, you keep repeating the same scripture although 'nations' ethnos
could also mean tribes. Since Jesus told his disciples that they would sit around the throne judging the 12 tribes of Israel it surely must mean tribes in the passage you keep quoting:
Mat 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

When I was saved Jesus took away all my sins, there is no need for me or any Christian to be judged again.

 

[Interplanner]

Actually, substance and evidence in that Hebrews passage is exactly what I'm talking about; see the chapter. They all acted on and left evidence.

There are certainly parts of the NT message where you 'don't see' everything. all the more reason to be grounded in the proven things before moving on, which are plenty and intended.

Your posts really are worthless Danoh. The quote-all verse is 2 Tim 3:16, which apparently you own or trademarked. Any issue about marriage? Danoh quotes it. An issue about Christ is the Seed? Danoh quotes it. Now, an issue about what Jesus means saying "So that you may know..." and Danoh quotes it.

The difference between me and you Danoah is that I am doing the verse while you are brandishing it as though you knew what it meant.

 

[Danoh]

Actually, substance and evidence in that Hebrews passage is exactly what I'm talking about; see the chapter. They all acted on and left evidence.

There are certainly parts of the NT message where you 'don't see' everything. all the more reason to be grounded in the proven things before moving on, which are plenty and intended.

Your posts really are worthless Danoh. The quote-all verse is 2 Tim 3:16, which apparently you own or trademarked. Any issue about marriage? Danoh quotes it. An issue about Christ is the Seed? Danoh quotes it. Now, an issue about what Jesus means saying "So that you may know..." and Danoh quotes it.

The difference between me and you Danoah is that I am doing the verse while you are brandishing it as though you knew what it meant.

Doing the verse a great disservice, is what you are doing, in your denial of its all encompassing sureness, by your every post.

Right - you read "about the Bible" in your endless books supposedly "based on" the Bible, so now you "know the Bible" complete with all the latest catch phrases you fools go back and forth attempting to impress each other with.

Thus your fool advice to GT that all she needed to do was read the verses a dozen times and she'd be done with it.

Try years in the Word - on the Word - Itself.

Yours is the reasoning of men about the reasonings of men.

Had my fill of that "wisdom of men" in College; woke up.

Do likewise, you fool.

2 Timothy 3:16-17.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Jerry, you keep repeating the same scripture although 'nations' ethnos
could also mean tribes. Since Jesus told his disciples that they would sit around the throne judging the 12 tribes of Israel it surely must mean tribes in the passage you keep quoting:

"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left... Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels" (Mt.25:31-33, 41).​

There is nothing you say which proves that this passage is only speaking of the "tribes" of Israel being judged, especially with the following passage in view:

"Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about them: 'See, the Lord is coming with thousands upon thousands of his holy ones to judge everyone, and to convict all of them of all the ungodly acts they have committed in their ungodliness, and of all the defiant words ungodly sinners have spoken against him'" (Jude 14-15).​

 

[God's Truth]

But everyone knew. The point is he was quoted.

Luke didn't call him Rabbi, because we are told to call no man 'Rabbi'. Why don't you just repent and be glad you were shown something?

the other thing you are concerned about wouldn't have mattered in a written record.

I have no idea what you are saying.

 

[God's Truth]

Then you have accepted the modern liberal neo-orthodox way of doing truth and seeing the Bible.

That is not true. Most people do not even know the scripture I was speaking about, and most do not even have such a testimony.

And it is not called "modern liberal neo-orthodox"; it is called God's Truth.

The radical thing about the Bible is that it is true to the real world, to what is out there. It is not mental. It is not subjective. It is not make-believe.

Did you do a lot of history studying to find that out? lol

When it says a 2-3 person stone was moved and the body of Christ was gone, on Resurrrection morning, these are historic facts that happened in space and time. they are not just "true" for us as Christians because we find meaning in them. They actually happened. The Roman guards would have stopped 2-3 women or men who came. They could not stop angelic entities, which they said they saw.

I do not need to study what historians say to know that the Bible is true.

Nowhere anywhere in the Bible does it say we have to study what historians say to know for sure. That is just your false beliefs and false teachings.

When Jesus talked with Moses and Elijah at the Transfiguration, if Peter had had a watch on, and it started at 10:03 and they talked for 10 minutes, Jesus would have come back to Peter at 10:13. It was a real event.

You do not speak what the Bible says. Nowhere does it say Peter timed it.

In the beginning of each of the gospels there is a very unusual healing. Before healing a paralytic, Jesus forgives his sins. The leaders of Judaism are PO'd for the blasphemy of that. So Jesus asks which is easier: to forgive or to have the guy walk out of there. Obviously 'you are forgiven' is easier, there is no proof in the real world, except for the joy the person develops later. So what does Jesus do? He says 'get up and walk away.'

What in the world are you talking about?

Why does Jesus self-conciously say this? Mt 9:9: "So that you may know that the (Danielic) Son of Man has authority to forgive sins..."
He proves one side by the other. Do you see? The forgiveness of sins is WORTHLESS unless the other side is true at the same time, that Jesus did things in the visible, external, proveable world. "So that we may know..." He does not bypass our reason, our sense of truth, reality, proof.

Are you kidding? You are trying to compare God testifying to what Jesus and the Apostles said with you studying what historians say!

Hebrews 2:4 God also testified to it by signs, wonders and various miracles, and by gifts of the Holy Spirit distributed according to his will.

Did you read that?

That is why Jesus gave miracles.

Nowhere are we told to search what historians say before we believe.

The Christian message is not subjective.

We do not find out if what Jesus says is true or not by reading what historians say. Jesus says we will find out if we obey his teachings, then we will find out.

John 7:17 Anyone who chooses to do the will of God will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own.

 

[Interplanner]

GodsT wrote:
You do not speak what the Bible says. Nowhere does it say Peter timed it.

that's why it says, "if" my friend. I'm fully aware that people did not have stop watches back then (duh).

 

[God's Truth]

Yeah, sure, Interplanner - Jesus was all about what the eye insists on seeing...

John 1:
50. Jesus answered and said unto him, Because I said unto thee, I saw thee under the fig tree, believest thou? thou shalt see greater things than these.
51. And he saith unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Hereafter ye shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of man.

John 20:
29. Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

1 Corinthians 1:
20. Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
21. For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
22. For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
23. But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
24. But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
25. Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
26. For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
27. But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
28. And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
29. That no flesh should glory in his presence.
30. But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:
31. That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

1 Corinthians 2:
1. And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God.
2. For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.
3. And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling.
4. And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:
5. That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

Men either believe, or they do not, and your Scholastic Mysticism, Interplanner, only proves this fact.

For you yourself refuse to believe that what is asserted in 2 Timothy 3:16-17 is more then sufficient.

In this, you are your own version of that disbelieving family member.

For the issue is Hebrews 11's:

1. Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
2. For by it the elders obtained a good report.
3. Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

Perhaps, Interplanner, you should change your handle to Empiricist.

Fact of the matter is that men either choose to believe Romans 6:23, or they choose not to.

I could agree on that.

 

[God's Truth]

GodsT wrote:
You do not speak what the Bible says. Nowhere does it say Peter timed it.

that's why it says, "if" my friend. I'm fully aware that people did not have stop watches back then (duh).

I could not care any less about your analogies.

 

[Interplanner]

God'sT:
My obedience to his teaching, which I do, is not going to show that there was an administrator named Pilate who was so divided over whether to crucify Christ that he went with his wife's dream. One thing is a matter of self-growth; the other is historic fact.

Back to the top of the previous post, you are wrong. It has never been the Christian position to say that "I know he lives; he lives within my heart"--not as the first thing. Look at the Apostle's Creed, for ex. It is full of things that happened "out there" in time. Because history belongs to God. It is not at enmity with him.

As for Mt 9:6, Mk 2:10, and Lk 5:24 (all same incident), the apostles (not some historian off the street, if that's what you are afraid of), said Jesus did that to prove that he could forgive sins. Case closed. we don't have one with out the other.

Even you quote of Hebrews about signs and wonders is not there because signs and wonders are make-believe but to demonstrate that God works in history, space, time.

Let me ask you this: does it matter whether anyone saw Lazarus raised from the dead?

Does it matter if the blind man in Jn 9 actually was healed and was seen by priests?

Does any demonstration of truth in the normal world matter?

 

[Right Divider]

You follow the doctrines of PROVEN false prophets... why should anyone here spend even 1 second reading what you have to say?

We are to FLEE from the likes of you.

Please do! FLEE THIS BOARD IMMEDIATELY!

 

[Interplanner]

I could not care any less about your analogies.

It is not an analogy. It is a question of whether the Transfiguration was a real event like the assassination of Kennedy or the storming of the US embassy in Tehran. Or was it fake? Was it imaginary? Was it subjective? Was it pretend? Was it make-believe?

 

[Interplanner]

Please do! FLEE THIS BOARD IMMEDIATELY!

Who was this spoken to?

 

[Interplanner]

God'sT wrote:
That is why Jesus gave miracles.

That's right! (Sorry to miss this earlier). this is exactly right. He gave miracles to prove that he was proveable and knowable. There is nothing fake or mental or imaginary about them. Most of them were to be shown to priests. Do you know why?

 

[Interplanner]

You are in a thread in a Christian student forum where the question is "how can the preterists be so blind?"

To get anywhere in this thread, you need to:
1, define preterist
2, define blindness

If you fail on those you are on a completely different question. Which is OK, but is not the topic.

We have temporarily taken up the question of proof of the Bible, because you said it is "true" entirely apart from proof. Yet anyone can see from the details provided, over and over, that proof matters.

Why were miracles/healings shown to the priests in Judaism?

 

[Danoh]

God'sT wrote:
That is why Jesus gave miracles.

That's right! (Sorry to miss this earlier). this is exactly right. He gave miracles to prove that he was proveable and knowable. There is nothing fake or mental or imaginary about them. Most of them were to be shown to priests. Do you know why?

I realize the following passage is not based on your faith in men, Interplanner.

But it is based on the sure footing alone that 2 Timothy 3:16-17 asserts is "All Scripture..."

John 20:
29. Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

 

[God's Truth]

God'sT:
My obedience to his teaching, which I do, is not going to show that there was an administrator named Pilate who was so divided over whether to crucify Christ that he went with his wife's dream. One thing is a matter of self-growth; the other is historic fact.

The Bible says there was a man named Pilate and that his wife warned him not to have anything to do with Jesus because of her dreams.

You do not believe the Bible about that, but you believe your choice historians.

Back to the top of the previous post, you are wrong. It has never been the Christian position to say that "I know he lives; he lives within my heart"--not as the first thing.

Where did I say it was? You said it was.

Look at the Apostle's Creed, for ex. It is full of things that happened "out there" in time. Because history belongs to God. It is not at enmity with him.

The Apostle's Creed is not even in the Holy Bible.
What don't you get about the fact that I believe the Bible and all the things it says happened, and I do not have to find out if it happened by checking with historians?

As for Mt 9:6, Mk 2:10, and Lk 5:24 (all same incident), the apostles (not some historian off the street, if that's what you are afraid of), said Jesus did that to prove that he could forgive sins. Case closed. we don't have one with out the other.

Your historian's writings are not in the Holy Bible and are not required readings.

Even you quote of Hebrews about signs and wonders is not there because signs and wonders are make-believe but to demonstrate that God works in history, space, time.

What you said does not make any sense. Who said signs and wonders are make-believe? You are the one who needs a historian to tell you it really happened.

Let me ask you this: does it matter whether anyone saw Lazarus raised from the dead?

Does it matter if the blind man in Jn 9 actually was healed and was seen by priests?

Does any demonstration of truth in the normal world matter?

I am not going to check what historians say about it. I am going to believe what the Holy Scriptures say about it.

 

[Interplanner]

God'sT wrote:
You do not believe the Bible about that, but you believe your choice historians.

No, the point was that it was in both. It is not true because it is only in the Bible; it is in the Bible because it is true.

 

[God's Truth]

It is not an analogy. It is a question of whether the Transfiguration was a real event like the assassination of Kennedy or the storming of the US embassy in Tehran. Or was it fake? Was it imaginary? Was it subjective? Was it pretend? Was it make-believe?

Everything in the Holy Bible was a real event, and I do not have to have that confirmed by your favorite historians.

 

[Interplanner]

God'T wrote:
Where did I say it was? You said it was.

You are the one saying the bible's truth is subjective here. I'm saying it is objective. You said God tells you its true and you obey. Both are good things to do. But the Bible is also proveable, as in archeology or other science or history.