Hospital "trying to kill" a Mom They Put Into Coma, Says Cousin

Rusha

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From the article, it seems as though from the time she left the hospital to the time that she collapsed was a half an hour. Had she still been in the hospital when she lapsed in the coma, it would have been the same outcome.

An ultrasound was done which means the condition didn't show up. Kidney stones has similar symptoms to an ectopic pregnancy. Outside of rushing her into exploratory surgery (where there would have been more blood loss), what exact medical treatment/procedure do you believe should have been administered?
 

1PeaceMaker

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Your overly emotional response is unnecessary.

Here's what upsets me, and why I express my upset. The doctors think the woman is brain dead, but they were wrong the last time she needed help. Now it seems just fine to them to terminate her against the family's wishes.

Without coming up with 30,000 or so dollars, dollars they didn't need before this, the hospital wants to do it regardless of what they want.

It is entirely possible that it was botched. Which is why we have courts ... so people can sue and financially cover from their losses.

What is your point?

Still yet, those who are not medical professionals, do not have the knowledge, experience or training to dictate the best course of medical treatment.

I think they have the knowledge to tell if they are feeling in grave danger with dangerous pain and symptoms of blood loss, and if they can't even walk when normally they can, it's worse than incompetent to throw them out! They do know enough to have a say.

Now, as to brain death, they have been wrong so often that they should not treat her body as a corpse before it stops and before the family feels she is gone. The family has the right to not give up, the body of their mother could house a living brain, and anyway, even a vegetative state is valued as sacred by many.

From the article, it seems as though from the time she left the hospital to the time that she collapsed was a half an hour.

She suffered a heart attack from blood loss. The symptoms of blood loss are very apparent. She knew she was in trouble. Her husband could see her pallor and knew she was in trouble.

Had she still been in the hospital when she lapsed in the coma, it would have been the same outcome.

She didn't first lapse into a coma, she first had sign after sign and finally, after having a heart attack also stopped breathing.

Had she been in hospital they could have responded faster to their first lapse in judgment. But they shouldn't have missed it in the first place;

ultrasound is especially useful in evaluating obstetric and gynecologic problems such as bleeding from an ovarian cyst or an ectopic or tubal pregnancy.

An ultrasound was done which means the condition didn't show up.

No, it meant the ultrasound was used incorrectly and the operator should be sent for further training. The hospital needs to change its policy. Chances are, this situation stemmed from bigotry or generalized arrogance on a level that should never be seen in the profession.

Since medicine is monopolized to the medical board we have no one to turn to if they tell us the won't help and the hospitals are tied together.

Kidney stones has similar symptoms to an ectopic pregnancy. Outside of rushing her into exploratory surgery (where there would have been more blood loss), what exact medical treatment/procedure do you believe should have been administered?

I believe if she was afraid to leave the ER they should have sent her to be monitored in the waiting room until they could gather enough information to evaluate her situation better.

If she had stopped breathing in the ER she would not be in a coma.

They have no right to kill her when their idiocy put her into that condition.
 

Tinark

Active member
They have no right to kill her when their idiocy put her into that condition.

They are declaring her condition beyond hope. If the family disagrees, they are welcome to pay for her continued life support.

If it was their own idiocy (we don't know that for fact as there has not been any court decision to that effect at this point), then they will be required to pay compensation for the mistake.
 

1PeaceMaker

New member
They are declaring her condition beyond hope.

Like they gave her pain medication and forced her to leave when she was in extreme agony and unable to walk?

If the family disagrees, they are welcome to pay for her continued life support.

Are they? Payment plans aside, the hospital can't kill someone just because they feel the treatment plan is hopeless.

It's an established fact that more than 20% of vegetative states are actually misdiagnosed as unconscious.

If it was their own idiocy (we don't know that for fact as there has not been any court decision to that effect at this point), then they will be required to pay compensation for the mistake.

Oh, we don't know if it was an idiot policy that forced her out when she was afraid for her life and health, unable to even walk?

I don't think we need a court to think. :think:

My daughter wonders if everybody just wants her dead, besides the family, or what!?

She's only got 2% of the money needed for transfer raised. The hospital can work out a long term payment plan until they are sued for the money, that shouldn't be the reason they withhold life-giving air.
 

shagster01

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Like they gave her pain medication and forced her to leave when she was in extreme agony and unable to walk?



Are they? Payment plans aside, the hospital can't kill someone just because they feel the treatment plan is hopeless.

It's an established fact that more than 20% of vegetative states are actually misdiagnosed as unconscious.



Oh, we don't know if it was an idiot policy that forced her out when she was afraid for her life and health, unable to even walk?

I don't think we need a court to think. :think:

My daughter wonders if everybody just wants her dead, besides the family, or what!?

She's only got 2% of the money needed for transfer raised. The hospital can work out a long term payment plan until they are sued for the money, that shouldn't be the reason they withhold life-giving air.

How many sides of this story do you follow? Just the family's? I'm just curious. Have you heard much of the actual medical institution's side?
 

Tinark

Active member
Like they gave her pain medication and forced her to leave when she was in extreme agony and unable to walk?



Are they? Payment plans aside, the hospital can't kill someone just because they feel the treatment plan is hopeless.

It's an established fact that more than 20% of vegetative states are actually misdiagnosed as unconscious.

Why can't they? Why should the hospital have to use up its resources, resources that could otherwise be used to care for cases it deems have a far better chance of survival? Now, once again, if the family wants to foot the bill, in effect using their resources, that's a different matter.

Oh, we don't know if it was an idiot policy that forced her out when she was afraid for her life and health, unable to even walk?

Is that the hospital's side of the story, or the family's side? There are always two sides to every dispute. Which is why we have courts settle these matters.

Also, what happened in the past is the past. If mistakes were made, that isn't rectified by keeping a hopeless case alive (in the hospitals assessment) on expensive life support.

My daughter wonders if everybody just wants her dead, besides the family, or what!?

It's more so about when should a hospital be forced to use up its own resources to care for someone who it deems will not receive any benefit. If the money comes from the outside, no problem.

She's only got 2% of the money needed for transfer raised. The hospital can work out a long term payment plan until they are sued for the money, that shouldn't be the reason they withhold life-giving air.

Yes, I think it would be a good idea for the hospital to show some flexibility here as far as payment goes. I don't know the specific details on that. Just, once again, be wary of getting your information from only one side.
 

Rusha

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No, it meant the ultrasound was used incorrectly and the operator should be sent for further training. The hospital needs to change its policy. Chances are, this situation stemmed from bigotry or generalized arrogance on a level that should never be seen in the profession.

These are all *guesses* on your part. I will continue to watch this story (from neutral sources) for the actual facts and outcome.
 

1PeaceMaker

New member
How many sides of this story do you follow? Just the family's? I'm just curious. Have you heard much of the actual medical institution's side?

How can I follow what they say when they don't say?

Would anyone reading this story, I wonder to myself, actually care enough to try and help the family raise the money... So far, less than $500 has been raised.
 

1PeaceMaker

New member
These are all *guesses* on your part. I will continue to watch this story (from neutral sources) for the actual facts and outcome.

Guesses aside, how about Occam's Razor? Do you think minorities get equal care in hospitals?

What is the reason they were mocked leaving the ER?

Do you imagine the family is lying about something?
 

Tinark

Active member
Do you imagine the family is lying about something?

They are going through an extremely stressful and emotional event that they blame the hospital for. It doesn't mean they are lying to not perceive and report the events taking place in an objective manner. They are only human after all.

I also know that if the hospital thought there was a legitimate chance for her to regain consciousness, they almost certainly wouldn't just let her die. I find the "evil doctor/hospital" hypothesis extremely unlikely. Although, if demonstrated in a court case, I'd certainly change my mind. Not saying it never happens. Just that I haven't seen the evidence that this is one of those very rare cases.
 

Tinark

Active member
Why would I? In the media you can see a copy of the declaration of brain death. So? Other people have recovered from that same dx.

And how do you know how severe the damage is in this particular case vs. those cases where there was recovery? How do you know that the damage isn't beyond all hope?
 

1PeaceMaker

New member
They are going through an extremely stressful and emotional event that they blame the hospital for. It doesn't mean they are lying to not perceive the events taking place in an objective manner. They are only human.

And they remember the event in vivid detail. They were together that night. The whole family went out to eat together for Valentine's Day.

Do you think he accidentally imagined the mocking words that no other ER would help them now?

She couldn't walk out of the ER. To wheel her away to the car by force is a direct violation of EMTALA.

I also know that if the hospital thought there was a legitimate chance for her to regain consciousness, they almost certainly wouldn't just let her die. I find the "evil doctor/hospital" hypothesis extremely unlikely. Although, if demonstrated in a court case, I'd certainly change my mind.

I would love to believe you, but I've seen too many cases about malicious doctors. So I'm very biased.

And it was malicious the way they turned them out during the crisis.
 

Rusha

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Do you imagine the family is lying about something?

I think the family is HUMAN. I don't believe they are being malicious, but rather emotional. That is understandable.

When I see a headline that reads "Hospital *trying to kill* a mom", it is necessary to look deeper into everything that happened.

I can guarantee you that when this goes to court, the attorney representing the grieving family better come up with something better than "hospital intentionally killed mom who they intentionally put in a coma".
 

1PeaceMaker

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I think the family is HUMAN. I don't believe they are being malicious, but rather emotional. That is understandable.

When I see a headline that reads "Hospital *trying to kill* a mom", it is necessary to look deeper into everything that happened.

I can guarantee you that when this goes to court, the attorney representing the grieving family better come up with something better than "hospital intentionally killed mom who they intentionally put in a coma".

I'm not suggesting a murder plot.

But it is essentially murder to me to kill a living person who may or may NOT be brain dead.

The family believes they see evidence she's in there and that family has been right before when doctors weren't.
 

1PeaceMaker

New member
And how do you know how severe the damage is in this particular case vs. those cases where there was recovery? How do you know that the damage isn't beyond all hope?

I've seen footage of her, pushing herself a little on the bed with her feet. They claim it's the brain stem. The family says she reacts to their voices.
 

1PeaceMaker

New member
They are going through an extremely stressful and emotional event that they blame the hospital for. It doesn't mean they are lying to not perceive and report the events taking place in an objective manner. They are only human after all.

I also know that if the hospital thought there was a legitimate chance for her to regain consciousness, they almost certainly wouldn't just let her die. I find the "evil doctor/hospital" hypothesis extremely unlikely. Although, if demonstrated in a court case, I'd certainly change my mind. Not saying it never happens. Just that I haven't seen the evidence that this is one of those very rare cases.

Well they have interests to protect, the hospital's.
 

Rusha

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I would love to believe you, but I've seen too many cases about malicious doctors. So I'm very biased.

And it was malicious the way they turned them out during the crisis.

I have never in my many years met a *malicious* doctor. Blunt. Yes. Rude. Yes. Incompetent. Yes. Malicious. Not one.

As you stated, you are very biased. The family, understandably, is very biased.

Malicious takes this to a whole new level which doesn't even come close to reality or make any sense.

ER's are busy. Doctors are human. They take an oath.

There is no good reason to believe that any doctor would set out to intentionally and maliciously harm this patient.

Talking to a family about removing a *brain dead* patient from life support is not malicious.
 
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