homosexual thread

[alwight]

What is everyone's take on person's who are hermaphrodites? That is with both male and female reproductive organs. Are they doomed?

At least some fundamentalists can't argue it involves a lifestyle choice.

 

[John Mortimer]

At least some fundamentalists can't argue it involves a lifestyle choice.

Indeed. It must be a very uncomfortable issue for some fundamentalists. What is the fundie position on what the sexual orientation of an hermaphrodite *should* be? Do they get a "special dispensation" to be bi-sexual or should they just *choose* straight? :chuckle: But then - what would "straight" be in this context??

:juggle:

 

[glorydaz]

I am just trying to show who is helping him out

If they'd stayed in the closet, you wouldn't have to worry about it.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Indeed. It must be a very uncomfortable issue for some fundamentalists. What is the fundie position on what the sexual orientation of an hermaphrodite *should* be? Do they get a "special dispensation" to be bi-sexual or should they just *choose* straight? :chuckle: But then - what would "straight" be in this context??

:juggle:

The institutions of society are made from the uncoordinated actions of multitudes of individuals over time. As such, they reflect the position of the normative members society. They are the will of the majority summed up in a set of rules that maintain a stable society.

The desires and actions of aberrations are discounted as invalid, because to try to validate them would disrupt the institutions formed by the normative majority and potentially destabilize the society.

Society tends to provide exceptions to the institutions where small cliques of aberrations can join together as a group outside of the main society and be paid for providing a regulated display of their aberrations for the entertainment of the majority. These cliques are often known as "freak shows."

 

[Arthur Brain]

The institutions of society are made from the uncoordinated actions of multitudes of individuals over time. As such, they reflect the position of the normative members society. They are the will of the majority summed up in a set of rules that maintain a stable society.

The desires and actions of aberrations are discounted as invalid, because to try to validate them would disrupt the institutions formed by the normative majority and potentially destabilize the society.

Society tends to provide exceptions to the institutions where small cliques of aberrations can join together as a group outside of the main society and be paid for providing a regulated display of their aberrations for the entertainment of the majority. These cliques are often known as "freak shows."

Well, the majority of society has determined that homosexuality is nothing to be feared or prejudiced against. So is that 'normative' enough for you? In addition the stances of certain people who think homosexuals and adulterers should be executed or locked up is also widely held to be somewhat loony at best. So, would it be you who is in the actual 'freak show' perchance?

:think:

It rather must be considering...

 

[genuineoriginal]

Well, the majority of society has determined that homosexuality is nothing to be feared or prejudiced against.

It only appears that way if you mistakenly believe the pro-homosexual media is presenting the truth.

Pro-Homosexual Media
It is difficult to overstate the impact of wide-scale liberal media bias in the advancement of the pro-homosexual and pro-“transgender” revolution in American society. In the last two decades, media imbalance (and de facto censorship) on the issue has morphed into frequent media celebration of homosexuality — thus leaving citizens starved for impartial and accurate information on this critical topic. “Journalism” has become pro-homosexual propaganda, with many media stories appearing as if they were written by LGBT (Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender) activists.​

It is a classic case of the tail wagging the dog

 

[Arthur Brain]

It only appears that way if you mistakenly believe the pro-homosexual media is presenting the truth.

Pro-Homosexual Media
It is difficult to overstate the impact of wide-scale liberal media bias in the advancement of the pro-homosexual and pro-“transgender” revolution in American society. In the last two decades, media imbalance (and de facto censorship) on the issue has morphed into frequent media celebration of homosexuality — thus leaving citizens starved for impartial and accurate information on this critical topic. “Journalism” has become pro-homosexual propaganda, with many media stories appearing as if they were written by LGBT (Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender) activists.​

It is a classic case of the tail wagging the dog

Erm, no it doesn't. Most people, aka the majority of society have no big deal with homosexuality.

Just because you have such a beef with it doesn't represent the majority view, no matter what sources you use to try and represent your minority one. You're actually arguing against your own argument dude.

You are part of the 'freak show' you describe. Most people wouldn't dream of putting homosexuals and adulterers to death. Yet you do. I wouldn't say you're entertaining exactly but you're certainly part of the 'show' you think you're outside of. Do you see that?

 

[genuineoriginal]

Erm, no it doesn't. Most people, aka the majority of society have no big deal with homosexuality.

You are ignoring the evidence of the institution of marriage itself.

The institution of marriage found in societies all throughout history and in every culture shows that the majority of people have a prejudice against homosexual relationships and in favor of heterosexual relationships.

We are living in a time when 40 years of mass media marketing efforts have created an unnatural tolerance for aberrant relationships in the regions of the world that have the wealth of technology needed for that mass media marketing.

This mass media marketing has created an environment of fear, designed to silence the majority opinion and allow only the minority opinion on homosexuality to be heard and tolerated. Rather than your brainwashed belief that the majority of society has no big deal with homosexuality, the majority of society has to keep silent about what they actually believe.

You are looking at the effect of the destabilization of society produced from that 40 years of mass media marketing, and making the presumption that you are looking at a stable society instead of one in flux.

 

[illusionray]

This mass media marketing has created an environment of fear, designed to silence the majority opinion and allow only the minority opinion on homosexuality to be heard and tolerated. Rather than your brainwashed belief that the majority of society has no big deal with homosexuality, the majority of society has to keep silent about what they actually believe.

Absolutely correct. The gay lobby actually knows this so it has worked overtime to stop a referendum from passing in parliament, the majority would reject gay marriage in the UK and they know it. There is no question that most people view homosexual relations as a perversion, but not being homosexual itself.

 

[Arthur Brain]

You are ignoring the evidence of the institution of marriage itself.

The institution of marriage found in societies all throughout history and in every culture shows that the majority of people have a prejudice against homosexual relationships and in favor of heterosexual relationships.

We are living in a time when 40 years of mass media marketing efforts have created an unnatural tolerance for aberrant relationships in the regions of the world that have the wealth of technology needed for that mass media marketing.

This mass media marketing has created an environment of fear, designed to silence the majority opinion and allow only the minority opinion on homosexuality to be heard and tolerated. Rather than your brainwashed belief that the majority of society has no big deal with homosexuality, the majority of society has to keep silent about what they actually believe.

You are looking at the effect of the destabilization of society produced from that 40 years of mass media marketing, and making the presumption that you are looking at a stable society instead of one in flux.

What makes you think that your view reflects the 'majority opinion'? I don't know what things are like in your neck of the woods but where I've lived and worked there simply is no big deal with it. Gay people are accepted as part of society and that's simply the way it is. Of course there's those with prejudices, there always will be but they're a minority and it has zero to do with 'media'.

Frankly, your views on executing homosexuals and adulterers are an extreme minority just among Christians so do you blame 'brainwashing media' for that?

 

[alwight]

The institution of marriage found in societies all throughout history and in every culture shows that the majority of people have a prejudice against homosexual relationships and in favor of heterosexual relationships.

We are living in a time when 40 years of mass media marketing efforts have created an unnatural tolerance for aberrant relationships in the regions of the world that have the wealth of technology needed for that mass media marketing.

This mass media marketing has created an environment of fear, designed to silence the majority opinion and allow only the minority opinion on homosexuality to be heard and tolerated. Rather than your brainwashed belief that the majority of society has no big deal with homosexuality, the majority of society has to keep silent about what they actually believe.

You are looking at the effect of the destabilization of society produced from that 40 years of mass media marketing, and making the presumption that you are looking at a stable society instead of one in flux.

I am not gay and perhaps because of that my own immediate reaction to gay marriage or sex is not one of selfless tolerance and acceptance.
Yes I too may find gay sex rather distasteful, even gay marriage, but I know that is my problem to deal with and accept it as such, it's not theirs, but it is also why I choose to argue for gay rights to be the equal of heterosexual ones
I've changed and learnt over the years that gay people are not just being perverse or perverted as my own Christian based society and media once led me to believe many years ago, when just having gay sex could get someone locked up, it's simply how gay people naturally are.
If I were a younger man today I hope I would have realised it sooner than I did, from a more tolerant modern society's attitude, including its media.

 

[rainee]

I am not gay and perhaps because of that my own immediate reaction to gay marriage or sex is not one of selfless tolerance and acceptance.
Yes I too may find gay sex rather distasteful, even gay marriage, but I know that is my problem to deal with and accept it as such, it's not theirs, but it is also why I choose to argue for gay rights to be the equal of heterosexual ones
I've changed and learnt over the years that gay people are not just being perverse or perverted as my own Christian based society and media once led me to believe many years ago, when just having gay sex could get someone locked up, it's simply how gay people naturally are.
If I were a younger man today I hope I would have realised it sooner than I did, from a more tolerant modern society's attitude, including its media.

Forgive me for saying this but that which you have said sounds like sickly sweet hogwash.

First of all there are two reasons for people seeing marriage going back as as far as humans being first found in a cultural existence , imho.

Sex had little to do with much of it, I think, though it certainly is tied to it with women having every one's babies. But it was the baby making more than the sex. I believe.

Gay marriage may be for some a move for securing money and position, or they wish it was, I fear. But for some screwed up people -they want others to know they are gay (broken) and proud of it. Gay is the new rebel without a clue.

Doe anyone ask you about your sex life? Does any one want to know?
And yet you can't get gays to shut up or stop acting like they are somehow so important because they are wounded and fail to be part of a difficult ancient life style. It's the hetros with real stories, really amazing stories. sigh. But look at gay pride parades - it's like watching the old timey circus coming to town. Gays who are not predators need to be quiet, why do I have to know anything about their problems? Go have sex or whatever, be abused and icky.

 

[rainee]

... You are, after all, one of those wishing to deny rights to others based solely on your religion.

This is where our modernity reveals how much we have forgotten in the States and some other parts of the world...

Go back to the beginning and a man with a woman is the only way he could build his world.

Go back years many small farmers couldn't farm out a living without his wife and children to help.


Was marriage through the ages ever a right for women?
Go around the world and see many women depended on marriage for social and economic survival..


Marriage is an institution, if we think it is a right we have forgotten.

It has been illegal to divorce in many places like the Philippines.

So it carries legal power, right?

If gays want to appear to wear grown up clothes by using marriage to legitimize themselves - well, I am against it.
As some people used to say about those who hooked up without marrying, "Let them have sex in sin"

 

[annabenedetti]

Doe anyone ask you about your sex life? Does any one want to know?

Why are you asking him such a question?

And yet you can't get gays to shut up or stop acting like they are somehow so important because they are wounded and fail to be part of a difficult ancient life style.

You can't get any of them to shut up? Really? You've been trying?

It's the hetros with real stories, really amazing stories. sigh

What kinds of real, really amazing stories are you talking about?

Gays who are not predators need to be quiet

Do you ever say that about heteros? I mean, how does that come up in a conversation? "All you heteros who aren't predators need to be quiet!"

 

[rainee]

Why are you asking him such a question?

You can't get any of them to shut up? Really? You've been trying?

What kinds of real, really amazing stories are you talking about?

Do you ever say that about heteros? I mean, how does that come up in a conversation? "All you heteros who aren't predators need to be quiet!"

Anna, are you channeling one or more of those guys you hang out with?
It feels like a freaky supernatural experience almost reading your post...

I asked him if any one asked about his sex life because normally men don't care about other normal guys.

Of course perhaps every female knows anything we may say or imply might explode into some ridiculous fantasy inducing sound byte.

But typically women don't care
to have men try to do that to them... Do you agree?

 

[annabenedetti]

Anna, are you channeling one or more of those guys you hang out with?
It feels like a freaky supernatural experience almost reading your post...

I asked him if any one asked about his sex life because normally men don't care about other normal guys.

Of course perhaps every female knows anything we may say or imply might explode into some ridiculous fantasy inducing sound byte.

But typically women don't care
to have men try to do that to them... Do you agree?

As insulting as your question is, rainee, I'll answer it: no. Those questions came out of my own brain, thankyouverymuch. I hadn't followed this thread at all but saw you'd posted and clicked on your post to see what you had to say, and was struck by your broad brush generalizations of an entire demographic of people.

I noticed you didn't answer all the questions by the way, and I'd be interested in your answers.

 

[rainee]

As insulting as your question is, rainee, I'll answer it: no.

Here we go again Anna.

I could ask how you could possibly find that too insulting.

I could ask if those guys know you think it is an insult to be said to sound like them - or that at least you are trying to say so now.

I can't imagine a friendship like that.

So I will guess you do not really feel so superior to them but are trying to engage me?

So are you talking to me because you want to fight? Or maybe because Al needs help?

Those questions came out of my own brain, thankyouverymuch.

Okie-dokie. Did you ask them because I offended you with what I said? Or because I really think about some of the principles at play and get wound up over them?

I hadn't followed this thread at all but saw you'd posted and clicked on your post to see what you had to say, and was struck by your broad brush generalizations of an entire demographic of people.

Oh, very good. But what kind of demographic would homosexuals fall into?

You know it is not all about an area, or age group, or political or religious stand.

It's not about the rich vs the poor, or the north vs the south.

It is not even about sex preference probably but about the ability to get and feel intimate with someone and sex is the quickest way.

What demographic? Those who get ruined by others? Those who are damaged? Those who corrupt and do damage to the vulnerable?

Maybe it is the demographic of fathers needing to turn their hearts to their children and children needing to turn their hearts to their fathers?

sigh.

I noticed you didn't answer all the questions by the way, and I'd be interested in your answers.

Oh my apologies, it's late maybe you would like to continue this tomorrow? Or maybe not?
good night anna

 

[annabenedetti]

Here we go again Anna.

I could ask how you could possibly find that too insulting.

I could ask if those guys know you think it is an insult to be said to sound like them - or that at least you are trying to say so now.

I can't imagine a friendship like that.

So I will guess you do not really feel so superior to them but are trying to engage me?

So are you talking to me because you want to fight? Or maybe because Al needs help?

Let's keep the discussion where it belongs, rainee. This isn't an opportunity for you to analyze my friendships, and I don't need to explain anything to the friends who know me well. I asked the questions because I wanted to discuss your post, not to have you ask me if I'm channeling someone else's thoughts. If you don't want to answer, then feel free to not respond any further and I'll understand, no problem.

Okie-dokie. Did you ask them because I offended you with what I said? Or because I really think about some of the principles at play and get wound up over them?

Because I was genuinely curious as to how you'd answer.

Oh, very good. But what kind of demographic would homosexuals fall into?

You know it is not all about an area, or age group, or political or religious stand.

It's not about the rich vs the poor, or the north vs the south.

It is not even about sex preference probably but about the ability to get and feel intimate with someone and sex is the quickest way.

What demographic? Those who get ruined by others? Those who are damaged? Those who corrupt and do damage to the vulnerable?

Maybe it is the demographic of fathers needing to turn their hearts to their children and children needing to turn their hearts to their fathers?

sigh.

What's the title of the thread? That's the demographic in question. (Demographic meaning "a section of the population sharing common characteristics").

Oh my apologies, it's late maybe you would like to continue this tomorrow? Or maybe not?
good night anna

Good night rainee. I don't mind continuing if we can focus on what I think were pretty broad-brush generalizations on your part. That's what I was getting at.

 

[alwight]

I am not gay and perhaps because of that my own immediate reaction to gay marriage or sex is not one of selfless tolerance and acceptance.
Yes I too may find gay sex rather distasteful, even gay marriage, but I know that is my problem to deal with and accept it as such, it's not theirs, but it is also why I choose to argue for gay rights to be the equal of heterosexual ones
I've changed and learnt over the years that gay people are not just being perverse or perverted as my own Christian based society and media once led me to believe many years ago, when just having gay sex could get someone locked up, it's simply how gay people naturally are.
If I were a younger man today I hope I would have realised it sooner than I did, from a more tolerant modern society's attitude, including its media.

Forgive me for saying this but that which you have said sounds like sickly sweet hogwash.

Your opinion is noted.

First of all there are two reasons for people seeing marriage going back as as far as humans being first found in a cultural existence , imho.

Sex had little to do with much of it, I think, though it certainly is tied to it with women having every one's babies. But it was the baby making more than the sex. I believe.

I’m not sure if you are thinking more here of forging alliances with other kingdoms and/or providing heirs to the throne than by what everyday people mean by marriage. :think:

Gay marriage may be for some a move for securing money and position, or they wish it was, I fear. But for some screwed up people -they want others to know they are gay (broken) and proud of it. Gay is the new rebel without a clue.

Perhaps it’s just time now that whoever wants to get married, gay or straight, can simply do so without outsiders with their own agendas sticking their oar in. Yes some gay people may also perhaps have a wider agenda than just their own marriage but if it were, after all, just another marriage then so what, who cares? At least we might then know who only wants to be married.

Doe anyone ask you about your sex life? Does any one want to know?

No and probably not imo, unless you know otherwise?

And yet you can't get gays to shut up or stop acting like they are somehow so important because they are wounded and fail to be part of a difficult ancient life style. It's the hetros with real stories, really amazing stories. sigh. But look at gay pride parades - it's like watching the old timey circus coming to town. Gays who are not predators need to be quiet, why do I have to know anything about their problems? Go have sex or whatever, be abused and icky.

If I based my opinion of Christians on only loud mouthed righteous homophobic right wing fundamentalists banging their drums then it might be somewhat skewed too.

 

[alwight]

I asked him if any one asked about his sex life because normally men don't care about other normal guys.

Without wishing to intrude in any feud here but how exactly am I caring about other people's sex lives? This is about having equal rights for all not in what anyone specifically actually does.