opcorn:
Hello Theology Online
- Thread starter Joe Lang
- Start date
opcorn:
I don't have the answers to stupid questions but I do know that we will be judged according to our works and loving our neighbor is a very big part of that. I will continue to use the dictionary for definitions and won't even try to understand how you use the bible to do it
zippy2006
New member
You mean you don't know how anyone is saved, and anyone who asks you, you just consider their questions stupid.
And you offer no assurance or hope to anyone, because you have no idea what the quantity or quality of those qualifiers. What good are you to anyone? How can you love your neighbor if you cannot help him with this?
Love is defined by who God is and what he has done. Man's definitions of love fall short.
Spitfire
New member
I'm glad to hear that. I tend to be very suspicious of people who consider themselves wonderful Catholics.
"Liberal" could mean so many different things, though. I still have trouble understanding precisely what people here are arguing against when they issue most of their edicts against liberals and liberalism.
Spitfire
New member
I think we can be assured that it's not a matter of quantity no matter what your position on the role of works in justification. Because, that would mean that after reaching a certain critical number of good works, one would no longer under any obligation to be just and charitable.
No one believes that.
You're welcome!
Does God not take your bad works into account?
We believe that all are redeemed but not saved. If you say you are saved, it sounds like you just judged yourself and I wonder how you do that. The bible tells us to love our neighbor and that is very clear. If you are looking for numbers, you really missed the message.
Spitfire
New member
It's not a matter of doing more good than bad if that's what you mean, no. If it were, we wouldn't need Jesus.
I know the message, and I know that no catholic believes it. Your "message" is as worthless as your Christless religion.
If it's based on works at all, you don't need Jesus. There is where your whole religion falls flat on it's face.
"But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace."
"Who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was granted us in Christ Jesus from all eternity"
What do you think the message is?
Without Jesus we are not redeemed and no amount of works will do it
"For I am not ashamed of the Gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes..." Romans 1:16
Paul says that the Gospel is the power to save anyone who believes it.
The word "salvation" means deliverance and preservation. You are in sin, and God pulls you out and makes you righteous. You are in condemnation and guilt, and He snatches you away and gives you peace and hope. You are dead, and He gives you life.
So what is it that the Gospel reveals to us that has the power to save us?
"For in it (the Gospel) the righteousness of God is revealed..." Rom 1:17
The righteousness of God is at the very heart of the Gospel. It is the foundation. The revelation that God is righteous has the power to save you.
" For the LORD is righteous; He loves righteousness" Ps 11:7
"Righteous art Thou, O LORD, And upright are Thy judgments" Ps 119:137
God is righteous, and He loves righteousness. He expects nothing less.
Man is unrighteous:
"There is none righteous, not even one; There is none who understands, There is none who seeks for God; All have turned aside, together they have become useless; There is none who does good, There is not even one." Rom 3:10-12
“For all of us have become like one who is unclean, And all our righteous deeds are like a filthy garment; And all of us wither like a leaf, And our iniquities, like the wind, take us away.” Is 64:6
“Surely there is not a righteous man on earth who does good and never sins.” Ecc 7:20
“For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God” Rom 3:23
Is there anyone righteous?
Is there anyone who has not sinned?
Therefore, must conclude two things:
GOD IS RIGHT.
WE ARE NOT.
“Your iniquities have made a separation between you and your God, And your sins have hidden His face from you, so that He does not hear.” Is 59:2
In the Gospel it is revealed that God is right, and we are not. And it is sin that makes us unrighteous separating us from God.
“And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, "From any tree of the garden you may eat freely; but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you shall surely die." Gen 2:16-17
God told Adam not to eat from the tree or he would die, and he did.
“The wages of sin is death…” Rom 6:23
Death simply means separation. When Adam sinned, he and all of us who have come after him are separated from the life of God. We are dead because of sin.
“Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned” Rom 5:12
As a result of that one sin, death (separation from God; independence) spread to ALL men. That is, All men for All time.
“So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men…” Rom 5:18
“For as through the one man's disobedience the many were MADE sinners…” Rom 5:19
You and I are separated from God (dead) because of one man. We are under condemnation because of one man, and we have been MADE sinners because of one man. If anyone spends eternity separated from the life of God, it is because of what one man did, and that man is Adam.
Man has a problem. He is a sinner and dead to God. And because of that, he now has a heart that is filled with pride, and he mistakenly thinks he can resolve this sin problem on his own. However, God does something to humble man and to bring him to the end of himself… He gives man the Law.
THE LAW
“The Law was given through Moses…” John 1:17
Most of us are familiar with the account of the Ten Commandments where Moses goes up on the mountain to receive the Law from God. So how do the people respond before and after Moses speaks to God?
“Go near and hear all that the Lord our God says; then speak to us all that the Lord our God will speak to you, and we will hear and DO it” Deut 5:27
Many churches today are filled with people who flock to a leader, that they believe hears from God. So they sit in anticipation of what God wants them to do, so that when they hear it, they can “just do it”! This is not what God intended for us. God wants us to know Him, and so there is something much better for us than just “doing it”.
In the OT did the people say after hearing the Law?
“All that the Lord has spoken we will DO, and we will be obedient” Ex 24:7
One of the things that resulted from Adam’s sin, is that in man’s heart he believes that he is basically good. If he can just know the right thing to do, he can be right by doing right. But that is not why God gave man the Law.
The Law has a purpose....
“I would not have come to know sin except through the Law; for I would not have known about coveting if the Law had not said, "You shall not covet." Rom 7:7
“Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, that every mouth may be closed, and all the world may become accountable to God; because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.” Rom 3:19-20
Justified = made righteous; acquitted; acceptable
God gave the Law to prove to man that “all have sinned”. That there is “none righteous”. Therefore, the purpose of the Law was to show us that we all fall short of the glory of God. We are all sinners and dead to God. The Law does not make us sinners, but it reveals to us that we are sinners. Not only does the Law not make you a sinner, it can never make you righteous. It can never make you right by doing right. It can never do anything about your real problem… you are DEAD and in need of LIFE!
“For if a law had been given which was able to impart life, then righteousness would indeed have been based on law.” Gal 3:21
This is a very important point, so never forget this:
You cannot have righteousness without having life. The Law cannot save you. It cannot give you life. Only God can provide a Way to solve your problem.
THE WAY - THE TRUTH - THE LIFE
"And she will bear a Son; and you shall call His name Jesus, for it is He who will save His people from their sins." Matt 1:21
"And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men, by which we must be saved." Acts 4:12
“Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but through Me.” John 14:6
There is only One Way - One Truth – One Life.
“But when the fulness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law, in order that He might redeem those who were under the Law…” Gal 4:4-5
When Jesus came into the world, He was born under the Law. Before Jesus could redeem men from the Law, He needed to let the Law fulfill it’s purpose. The Law needed to bring men to the end of their self-righteousness. In other words, Jesus taught the Law to show men that they can never be right by doing right.
Paul reminds us that no one will ever be righteous through obedience to the Law. Remember, the purpose of the Law is to reveal sin. Jesus uses the Law to show men that they can never accomplish what God demands, which is absolute perfection.
“Therefore you are to be perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect” Matthew 5:48
Talk about an unrealistic expectation! It’s the same message God told Abraham.
“And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the Lord appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.” Gen 17:1
And to Israel:
“Thou shalt be perfect with the Lord thy God.” Deut 18:13
God demands absolute perfection. We must be as righteous as God. Anything else falls short. Without perfection, men cannot be saved.
"For I say to you, that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you shall not enter the kingdom of heaven.” Matt 5:20
Here we have the absolutely most religious leaders of His day who claim to believe in God, and Jesus tells everyone else that they have to be more righteous than they are. By doing this, Jesus does two things.
- He brings everyone else to a place of hopelessness.
- He states that those, who everyone else perceives as the most righteous, will not enter the kingdom of heaven.
Today, it would be like Jesus taking Mother Teresa and Billy Graham and putting His arms around both of them on national TV before the whole world, and proclaiming that in order to enter the kingdom of heaven we must have a righteousness greater than these two. Even they fall short. We all do.
Jesus fulfilled the Law, because you cannot. When we teach others that they need to DO what Jesus would DO, we are in effect placing them back under the Law to be righteous. Faith needs to be in Jesus, in what He has already DONE for us, will do in us, and then through us. We are not to put our confidence in us and what we can do, because we can never do enough. It is not WWJD, but what DID Jesus do that matters.
"Do not think that I will accuse you before the Father; the one who accuses you is Moses, in whom you have set your hope.” John 5:45
Notice what Jesus says – They put their hope in the Law. When someone trusts in the Law and their ability to keep it, they are really placing faith in themselves, and not in God. That is what it means to be self-righteous.
Let’s take a look at an encounter that Jesus had that perfectly illustrates man’s inability, and God’s ability.
“And behold, one came to Him and said, "Teacher, what good thing shall I DO that I may obtain eternal life?" And He said to him, "Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments." He said to Him, "Which ones?" And Jesus said, "You shall not commit murder; You shall not commit adultery; You shall not steal; You shall not bear false witness; Honor your father and mother; and You shall love your neighbor as yourself." The young man said to Him, "All these things I have kept; what am I still lacking?" Jesus said to him, "If you wish to be complete, go and sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you shall have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me." But when the young man heard this statement, he went away grieved; for he was one who owned much property. And Jesus said to His disciples, "Truly I say to you, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. And again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God." And when the disciples heard this, they were very astonished and said, "Then who can be saved?" And looking upon them Jesus said to them, "With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible." Matt 19:16-26
Any notion that people had that they were righteous under the Law was laid to rest by Jesus. He proved that it is impossible for men to have eternal life through the Law. As Paul confirms:
"I do not nullify the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly." Gal 2:21
If righteousness could come through the works of the Law, then there was no reason for Jesus to shed His blood for you and I. We would have no need for God’s grace.
“For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who does not abide by ALL things written in the book of the law, to perform them." Gal 3:10
“For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one [point], he has become guilty of all.” James 2:10
You cannot do it. You cannot perform what the Law demands. Therefore, God sent His Son to fully resolve this issue ONCE for ALL.
THE CROSS
“The next day he saw Jesus coming to him, and said, "Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!” John 1:29
Jesus came to take away our sins ONCE for ALL.
“But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.” Rom 5:8
“He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.” 1 John 2:2
Propitiation = The sacrifice of Jesus fully satisfied God’s punishment and justice for our sins.
“For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures” 1 Cor 15:3-4
“For the death that He died, He died to sin, ONCE for ALL; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.” Rom 6:10
“He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.” 2 Cor 5:21
Jesus died for YOU and He died for me. He took the penalty of death for our sins so that we could receive God’s righteousness. As Jesus said, in order to enter the kingdom of heaven, we must have a righteousness that surpasses that which is by the works of the Law. How does this happen?
GRACE
“For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, that no one should boast.” Eph 2:8-9
This is “good news”! This is the power of God unto salvation. Righteousness is a gift! Salvation is a gift by grace through faith in Jesus.
“They said therefore to Him, "What shall we DO, that we may work the works of God?" Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you BELIEVE in Him whom He has sent." John 6:28-29
“Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.” Gal 2:16
Justified = made righteous; acquitted; acceptable
"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever BELIEVES in Him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world should be SAVED through Him.” John 3:16-17
“He that believeth on him is NOT condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.” John 3:18
As we’ve already discussed, all men are condemned because of the sin of one man – Adam.
"Therefore let it be known to you, brethren, that through Him forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you, and through Him everyone who believes is freed from all things, from which you could not be freed through the Law of Moses.” Acts 13:38-39
The Law keeps you in bondage. Jesus frees you from all of it.
“ For He delivered us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son, in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.” Col 1:13-14
In the “domain of darkness” we were slaves of sin, under the Law, wrath, condemnation, guilt, and death.
In our new domain (in Christ) we are slaves of righteousness, under grace, where there is liberty, peace, joy, and life!
"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does NOT come into judgment, but HAS PASSED out of death into life.” John 5:24
“Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ, and gave us the ministry of reconciliation, namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation. Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were entreating through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.” 2 Cor 5:18-20
IT IS FINISHED – Once for All.
“These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, in order that you may know that you have eternal life.” 1 John 5:13
Jesus died for the sins of the whole world, was buried, and was raised from the dead, having satisfied God’s justice for sin, and is seated at the right hand of God. It is finished. The sin issue between God and man was settled at the cross, once for all! That is, once for all sin, for all men, for all time.
However, as essential as Christ’s sacrifice is, (for by it we are reconciled to God) we are not saved by His death, but by His resurrected life. The sin issue had to be resolved to make it possible for God to gives us that alone which saves us, His very life in us.
“For if while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.” Rom 5:10
LIFE
“I came that they might have life…” John 10:10
“And this IS the promise which He Himself made to us: eternal life” 1 John 2:25
“And the witness is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son HAS THE LIFE; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.” 1 John 5:11-12
“It is the Spirit who gives life” John 6:63
“By this we know that we abide in Him and He in us, because He has given us of His Spirit.” 1 John 4:13
“In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation-- having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise.” Eph 1:13
The truth is, God is right, and we are not. We cannot make ourselves right, only God can. It is a gift.
God resolved the very thing that makes us wrong, so that we can be made right. We must accept God’s provision (Jesus) to be made right.
NEW CREATION
“Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.” 2 Corinthians 5:17
“For you have died and your life is hidden with Christ in God.” Col 3:3
You are separated from who you were in Adam. Separated from the Law, from wrath, from sin, and from death.
“But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.” Rom 7:6
"For through the Law I died to the Law, that I might live to God. Gal 2:19
“For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.” Rom 8:2
"I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me, and delivered Himself up for me.” Gal 2:20
CONCLUSION:
The Gospel is the revelation of God’s righteousness through Jesus; a righteousness that we receive as a gift by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone.
“And the gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned; for on the one hand the judgment arose from one transgression resulting in condemnation, but on the other hand the free gift arose from many transgressions resulting in justification. For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ. So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men. For as through the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the One the many will be made righteous.” Romans 5:16-19
The message that puts the emphasis on us and what we do, is not the Gospel that Jesus revealed to Paul. It is another gospel.
If you have accepted the gift of righteousness through faith in Christ, then you are a new creation. You have the Spirit of the living God in YOU, and you are just as righteous as Jesus. Not because of anything you have done or will do, but because of what Jesus has already done for you and in you.
This is the Gospel that we must believe and proclaim.
genuineoriginal
New member
:thumb:
And what you do when no one else is watching is the best indication of what you believe.
bucksplasher
New member
Either you are an award winning typist or you had this on file somewhere.
If the former very good and if the latter ...
tWINs