I said
I'm glad Jesus went up I'm planning the same trip myself one day. But it won't make me anymore God than it made Jesus.
Have You Fallen From Grace?
- Thread starter Squeaky
- Start date
I said
I'm glad Jesus went up I'm planning the same trip myself one day. But it won't make me anymore God than it made Jesus.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
This is the reason:
"Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands"(Heb.2:7).
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Did you come down from heaven?
marhig
Well-known member
And that is the truth, his very nature is that of God, he was and is in the express image of God because he denied his flesh completely and didn't live by his will but by God's will and he overcame Satan. He was full of Gods holy spirit. He denied Satan and Satan had nothing in him. He was in the fullness of God in his absolute image because God was in him. But he's not God! And if we have the holy spirit, then we should also have the nature of God and Christ and should be at one with them!
I know that Jesus isn't God, Jesus himself said that God is his God and I believe him, and also the apostles said that God is the God and father of our lord Jesus Christ, and I believe them, why shouldn't I? They are apostles of God!
Anyway, I'm not asking for anyone to show me that Jesus is God, I'm asking you and others who believe as you do to show me where in the Bible it says that we have to believe in the trinity to belong to God or to be saved? I've never ever seen it, or where it says we belong to Satan if we don't believe in the trinity, because I haven't seen that either!
Where does it say these things clearly in the Bible? Why can't any of you show me?
1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
As I said, the Lord Jesus said that he came down from heaven and that He was in heaven before He descended to the earth:
"And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the son of man which is in heaven" (Jn.3:13).
"What and if ye shall see the son of man ascend up where he was before?" (Jn.6:62).
Of course he must be God since He came down from heaven. And here He says the same thing and His hearers would know that He was claiming to be God:
"And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world. I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins" (Jn.8:24).
Later in the same discourse the Lord Jesus said:
"Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I AM. Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by" (Jn.8:58-59).
They took up stones to cast at Him because He was claiming to be God, the great Ï AM":
"And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you" (Ex.3:14).
So if you deny that the Lord Jesus is God you will die in your sins!
marhig
Well-known member
I believe what is said in the Bible, I'm yet to see where it says we must believe in the trinity be saved. And seeing as you see yourself as spiritually discerned, maybe you can show me?
Also you said about honouring Jesus, well we honour him and God from our heart and not just with lip service! To truly honour Jesus is to live by the will of God and follow him!
Matthew 15
This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
marhig
Well-known member
Still no verse saying that we must believe in the trinity to belong to God or be saved? Where is it in the Bible? I'm just asking for the actual verse that clearly says this?
And Jesus is talking about believing that he is the son of God, not believing that he is God.
marhig
Well-known member
Yes thou madest him a little lower than the angels. Who's thou? Thou is God, God made Jesus a little lower than the angels.
If Jesus was God no one would have made him a little lower than the angels, and no one would have exhalted him to the right hand of God either. God the father did both!
Stephen saw this clearly, he said I see the heavens opened and the son of man standing at the right hand of God. He never saw Jesus is God that he was standing at the right hand OF God!
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
But if you deny that the Lord Jesus is God then you will die in your sins.
Of course he must be God since He came down from heaven. And here He says that He is from above and His hearers would know that He was claiming to be God:
"And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world. I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins" (Jn.8:24).
Later in the same discourse the Lord Jesus said:
"Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I AM. Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by" (Jn.8:58-59).
They took up stones to cast at Him because He was claiming to be God, the great Ï AM":
"And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you" (Ex.3:14).
So if you deny that the Lord Jesus is God you will die in your sins!
marhig
Well-known member
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
The fact of the mstter is that before He was made a little lower than the angels He shared God's glory, saying:
"And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was" (Jn.17:5).
The Lord Jesus must be God because Jehovah said that He will not give His glory to another:
"I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images" (Isa.42:8).
"For mine own sake, even for mine own sake, will I do it: for how should my name be polluted? and I will not give my glory unto another" (Isa.48:11).
Since Jehovah says that He will not give His glory to another and the Lord Jesus shared that same glory before the world began then He has to be Jehovah.
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marhig
Well-known member
Still nothing, you are just trying to justify what you say. Nowhere does it say in the Bible that we die in our sins if we don't believe that Jesus is God, no where.
It says that we will die in our sins if we don't believe Jesus when he says I am he. Which is to believe that he is the son of God.
I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am*he, ye shall die in your sins. Then said they unto him, Who art thou? And Jesus saith unto them, Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning
And Jesus said from the beginning that he is the son of God, not God the son. Which I can prove with scripture
John 10
Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
Can you show me where Jesus said he is God the son in the scriptures?
Also further down the chapter in John 8 that you quoted
Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
He clearly says that he didn't come of himself, and that he came from God and that God sent him. This clearly shows that Jesus isn't God.
God looks at the heart first and foremost, and there will be many who believe in both ways, but God will judge their heart before anything. He wants our hearts clean and filled with his love for others, regardless of what they do to us, and for us to be full of forgiveness and to care for others and bring him and Christ to them. Once we know the truth, then we will be judged on that.
Anyway I'll have to answer anymore posts tomorrow I'm going to bed it's late here.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
-DELETED-
I said
They cant show you because its not in there. They don't follow the rules of believing. You do. The first rule is don't think beyond what is written, then don't add one thing to the verses or take one thing away from the verses.
1 Cor 4:6
6 Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively transferred to myself and Apollos for your sakes, that you may learn in us not to think beyond what is written, that none of you may be puffed up on behalf of one against the other.
(NKJ)
Rev 22:18-19
18 For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book;
19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
(NKJ)