Has All Been Fulfilled? Have Heaven and Earth Passed?

[TweetyBird]

Hebrews 8:7-8 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second.
Because finding fault with them...​

The fault was with the people, not the covenant.

The context was the old covenant, which is why a new one was given. Else we would still be sacrificing animals for sin.

 

[TweetyBird]

It was Christ who thundered the covenant to the Father's firstborn and today the covenant is only for the Father's spiritual firstborn.

The old covenant was broken by God and new one prophesied. The NT shows us this new covenant and how it was accomplished and implemented through Christ. The old covenant was ratified in the blood of animals. The new covenant was ratified in the blood of Christ forevermore, no more change, no more fault. A perfect covenant for all mankind - those who believe in Christ and are washed in His blood.

 

[TweetyBird]

Yup...

And a covenant is not just its Law...

The Law is only part of the covenant's terms...

Each covenant is dependent on the obedience of its terms...

The old covenant was the Law of Moses, the Book of the Law, the blessings, the curses, the 10 commandments. It was ONE covenant for the nation of ISRAEL.

 

[TweetyBird]

Have heaven and earth passed away?

Not literally.

Are you quite sure the original statement was entirely literal, though? From where I sit, it doesn't appear to be.

According to Luke, who quoted Jesus, saying it was EASIER for heaven and earth to pass away than for one jot or tittle of the law to fail.

Luke 16:17
And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.

 

[Hawkins]

Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Ran into one of these today:




and they always stumble over thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal, thou shalt not commit adultery, etc

because if the whole thing vanished away, then there's no longer a prohibition on killing, or stealing, or committing adultery, right?

That actually says the purpose of God's Law. God's Law is designed to judge who shall enter Heaven. This will apply to both angels and humans alike. It won't go away until this purpose is fulfilled. That's at the time when the old heaven and earth will vanish and the new heaven and earth will come.


It happens that Mosaic Law is the set of Law given to a scope of humans called the Jews. This set of Law will not go away either till the judgment of the Jews is done on the Judgment Day. Or rather, the judgment is a a judgment by a covenant granted to the Jews through Moses.

That's why there should be 2 levels of judgments for humans, a judgment by covenant and a judgment by God's Law (not Mosaic Law). Mosaic Law actually belongs to the judgment of covenant applied to the Jews after Moses.

In a nutshell, each and every human is subject to a covenant. If the covenant won't save you then the Law (not Mosaic Law) will kill you. Law here refers to a more strict set of Law which Adam broke. The set of Law may also applicable to the angels including Satan.


Luke 16:16-18 (NIV)
The Law and the Prophets were proclaimed until John. Since that time, the good news of the kingdom of God is being preached, and everyone is forcing their way into it.
It is easier for heaven and earth to disappear than for the least stroke of a pen to drop out of the Law.
Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery, and the man who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.


It's talking about that OT should cease to be preached as OT lost its salvation power along with the coming of the powerful NT.

However Law will not go away, not just Mosaic Law as divorce actually is legal in terms of Mosaic Law. "The Law will not go away" bears a deeper meaning that actually God's Law (the one reserved to judge humans and angels alike on the Judgment Day) is in effect all the times till the final judgment ends.

 

[clefty]

It's impossible to keep the Mosaic Law, which is why it was replaced. Fault was found with it. Do you know why?

"Replaced" by the covering blood of the One Who gave and kept it...

Now in faith, just as it was back then, when He covers us from the wrath that will Pass over all of us again in the last judgement, it will appear as if we kept the entirety of the Law...His blood does that...His perfection perfects us...

Is why we continue to try and keep it...

We might miss the ball from time to time but you remind me of those that quit the game and hate it because they missed once too...and stomped off in a huff and puff...lol

I am still on the team still in uniform and my batting average continues to increase...

I will NEVER bat 1000% but I LOVE the game...and because of the One who bat perfectly...what an example! What a game!

HalleluYah He'll bat for me when I need it most...judgement day...

 

[TweetyBird]

"Replaced" by the covering blood of the One Who gave and kept it...

Now in faith, just as it was back then, when He covers us from the wrath that will Pass over all of us again in the last judgement, it will appear as if we kept the entirety of the Law...His blood does that...His perfection perfects us...

Is why we continue to try and keep it...

We might miss the ball from time to time but you remind me of those that quit the game and hate it because they missed once too...and stomped off in a huff and puff...lol

I am still on the team still in uniform and my batting average continues to increase...

I will NEVER bat 1000% but I LOVE the game...and because of the One who bat perfectly...what an example! What a game!

HalleluYah He'll bat for me when I need it most...judgement day...

You don't have the luxury to pick and choose if you are going to keep the Law of Moses, because if you break one, you have broken them all. It is a covenant founded on the blood of animals and in order to continue under that system, you have no choice but to sacrifice animals for your sins. That is why God said a NEW covenant, NOT LIKE the one He gave at Mt Sinai. "New" means brand new, never heard of before, something fresh, and a new design. The old covenant/Mosaic Law is now missing the mark of the new covenant that was put in place through Christ Jesus.

There was no "missing the ball" with Israel. It was do or be cursed. You are changing what God said to do, to what is right in your own eyes. The Holy Spirit is not leading you to keep the Law of Moses, which has passed away. 2 Cor 3. Heb 3 - we are of the household of Jesus, not Moses.

 

[Nihilo]

Spoiler

ok

the killing part or being extinct or both?

ok

yes

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s1c3a1.htm

1956 The natural law, present in the heart of each man and established by reason, is universal in its precepts and its authority extends to all men. It expresses the dignity of the person and determines the basis for his fundamental rights and duties:

For there is a true law: right reason. It is in conformity with nature, is diffused among all men, and is immutable and eternal; its orders summon to duty; its prohibitions turn away from offense . . . . To replace it with a contrary law is a sacrilege; failure to apply even one of its provisions is forbidden; no one can abrogate it entirely.9

...

1958 The natural law is immutable and permanent throughout the variations of history;10 it subsists under the flux of ideas and customs and supports their progress. The rules that express it remain substantially valid. Even when it is rejected in its very principles, it cannot be destroyed or removed from the heart of man. It always rises again in the life of individuals and societies:

Theft is surely punished by your law, O Lord, and by the law that is written in the human heart, the law that iniquity itself does not efface.11

The diabolical irony...

Spoiler

And in between those two coming in at number 1957:

"Application of the natural law varies greatly; it can demand reflection that takes account of various conditions of life according to places, times, and circumstances. Nevertheless, in the diversity of cultures, the natural law remains as a rule that binds men among themselves and imposes on them, beyond the inevitable differences, common principles."

And we all know who determines their applications...for us...lol

LOL. I like this one (among many others on that page/at your link):

1953 The moral law finds its fullness and its unity in Christ. Jesus Christ is in person the way of perfection. He is the end of the law, for only he teaches and bestows the justice of God: "For Christ is the end of the law, that every one who has faith may be justified" (Ro10:4).
​

Thank you very much for that link; that whole page as a unit, is probably my favorite one from the Catechism of the Catholic Church, when I'm reading it. I very much enjoy it.

:e4e:

 

[jamie]

You don't have the luxury to pick and choose if you are going to keep the Law of Moses...

You keep talking about God's law given through Moses as if it applied today. It doesn't, that law was always intended to be temporary just as the new covenant with Israel and Judah will be temporary.

 

[TweetyBird]

You keep talking about God's law given through Moses as if it applied today.

Many people, thousands of Gentiles believe the Law of Moses must be applied today. From your posts, you seem to agree.

It doesn't, that law was always intended to be temporary just as the new covenant with Israel and Judah will be temporary.

The new covenant is not temporary. It is for all those in Christ - He IS the new covenant. If one is not in that covenant they are not saved. It is eternal. We are saved through and in Him for all eternity. The Heavenly Ark of His new Covenant is in Heaven, eternally.

 

[jamie]

The new covenant is not temporary. It is for all those in Christ - He IS the new covenant. If one is not in that covenant they are not saved. It is eternal. We are saved through and in Him for all eternity. The Heavenly Ark of His new Covenant is in Heaven, eternally.

The new covenant is for Israel and Judah as mortal beings. Those in Christ belong to neither group.

 

[jamie]

The old covenant was the Law of Moses, the Book of the Law, the blessings, the curses, the 10 commandments. It was ONE covenant for the nation of ISRAEL.

What was in the ark of the covenant? What was placed beside the ark of the covenant?

 

[clefty]

LOL. I like this one (among many others on that page/at your link):

1953 The moral law finds its fullness and its unity in Christ. Jesus Christ is in person the way of perfection.

so true...He is the Way...follow Him His example.

He is the end of the law,

the end? As in it is done away with...as in He destroys something He is in fullness with? or unity with? Odd unity...oh you mean He is the goal, the end result of the Law...that translates better...

for only he teaches and bestows the justice of God:

justice based on what?...something destroyed? He teaches His way, and by His example His Own obedience to that Law...Do as I did as I did what I was to do...His Father's will...immutable Law...means forever

"For Christ is the end of the law, that every one who has faith may be justified" (Ro10:4).

Yup...His Way is of obedience and leads to Him just like following tracks in the snow lead to the one making them...the Law points to Him in Whom with our faith we may be justified...

again that word...justified...from what?...oh yeah the Law and its curse...

Thank you very much for that link; that whole page as a unit, is probably my favorite one from the Catechism of the Catholic Church, when I'm reading it. I very much enjoy it.

:e4e:

Oh good glad you enjoyed...

I enjoy these too:

"2131 Basing itself on the mystery of the incarnate Word, the seventh ecumenical council at Nicaea (787) justified against the iconoclasts the veneration of icons - of Christ, but also of the Mother of God, the angels, and all the saints. By becoming incarnate, the Son of God introduced a new "economy" of images."

That's hilarious...

So they blame Him for their breaking the Law...so Adam and Eve like...blaming...

As if it is His fault the church makes Idols...somehow by showing up here on this planet it reverses the Law from "make no image" to "go ahead"...Apparently the Word becoming flesh gives license to disobey...


Funny how I never read "Sabbath keeping is finished" or "go ahead make idols" but do read "think not I have come to destroy" and how He insisted He kept His Father's commandments and we are to follow His example...



This too is funny stuff...


"2132 The Christian veneration of images is not contrary to the first commandment which proscribes idols. Indeed, "the honor rendered to an image passes to its prototype," and "whoever venerates an image venerates the person portrayed in it."70 The honor paid to sacred images is a "respectful veneration," not the adoration due to God alone:

Religious worship is not directed to images in themselves, considered as mere things, but under their distinctive aspect as images leading us on to God incarnate. The movement toward the image does not terminate in it as image, but tends toward that whose image it is.71"

As if pagans actually pray to that specific image, rock or tree and not to the god it portrays/represents...the movement going beyond the rock or the tree to its prototype...lol

All those pretty words when "Now all has been heard; here is the conclusion of the matter: Fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the duty of all mankind."

All mankind...not just one tribe...the cross destroyed the curse, not the Law...merely providing a better Way for His final wrath to Pass over...His becoming incarnate gives an example not an idol...

 

[heir]

so true He is the Way...follow Him His example.

You can't (Romans 3:23 KJV). Now what?

 

[heir]

Yup...His Way is of obedience and leads to Him just like following tracks in the snow lead to the one making them...the Law points to Him in Whom with our faith we may be justified...

You'd better consult Paul to show you by whose faith we are justified! It's not ours!

Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

 

[clefty]

You can't (Romans 3:23 KJV). Now what?

Ummm...

because all have sinned we WANT to follow Him and do as He did because we are tired of doing wrong...

I can't bat 1000% but I want to...and I have a good coach...ya dig?

If we hadn't sinned we wouldn't need to follow Him as we could do as we pleased since we would be sinless...

So now I guess be so sick of sin you want to do as He did..."go and sin no more" He said...

 

[clefty]

You'd better consult Paul to show you by whose faith we are justified! It's not ours!

Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

I did...he said it is by our faith we are justified

and he also told me we establish law...which Law our own? I asked...Or His...

Paul just responded to just follow him as he followed Him and so...well...He said obey Him as He obeyed His Father so that all means we are to follow the Law as that is the Father's will...


I never said I do all the commandments I said I want to...it's a desire to do works...good works...His works...that which keeps faith alive...and brings me closer to Him.

 

[jamie]

Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

We are justified by the faith of Jesus Christ manifested in our life.

 

[clefty]

We are justified by the faith of Jesus Christ manifested in our life.

Yup...go and sin no more...

 

[clefty]

You don't have the luxury to pick and choose if you are going to keep the Law of Moses, because if you break one, you have broken them all. It is a covenant founded on the blood of animals and in order to continue under that system, you have no choice but to sacrifice animals for your sins. That is why God said a NEW covenant, NOT LIKE the one He gave at Mt Sinai. "New" means brand new, never heard of before, something fresh, and a new design. The old covenant/Mosaic Law is now missing the mark of the new covenant that was put in place through Christ Jesus.

There was no "missing the ball" with Israel. It was do or be cursed. You are changing what God said to do, to what is right in your own eyes. The Holy Spirit is not leading you to keep the Law of Moses, which has passed away. 2 Cor 3. Heb 3 - we are of the household of Jesus, not Moses.

No missing the ball? LOL...even Moses swung at the wrong thing and ended up going Home...

There was constant missing the ball with Israel even with her heroes...and champions of faith...is why the game was played at all...to get Home

You really forget the mercy back there...the grace to those with faith...

Sacrifices were for sins you were ignorant of...for what wrong you knew you did restitution with interest was demanded...

There was grace and mercy long before Moses entered this House...and the House rules have not changed...you claim the blood for sin you are ignorant of and for the sin you are mindful of you confess and resolve with Him to go and "sin no more"...

Judgement day is coming and faith in the covering blood is key...and that faith is revealed by works...you working to keep the House clean or just junkin' up the place?...those are the House rules...