ECT Grace is unconditional but not universal

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1Mind1Spirit

Literal lunatic
All "Polywoggle"!

"Or do you suppose that the Scripture is speaking to no purpose that says, The Spirit Whom He has caused to dwell in us yearns over us and He yearns for the Spirit [to be welcome] with a jealous love?" James 4:5 (AMP)

"'What, do you consider this is an idle word of scripture?—'He yearns jealously for the spirit he set within us'.)"James 4:5 (MOFF)

The severity of it all:

". . . I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;" Exodus 20:5 (KJV)

You have a bad problem here.

James is saying our spirit lusts to envy.

He is chastising people for praying to consume things upon their own lust.

This is why you pray and don't receive understanding, you are entrenched in the pride and lust of yourself.
 

Cross Reference

New member
You have a bad problem here.

James is saying our spirit lusts to envy.

He is chastising people for praying to consume things upon their own lust.

This is why you pray and don't receive understanding, you are entrenched in the pride and lust of yourself.

Wrong! It is the Holy Spirit. James is speaking to Spirit filled saints.
 

1Mind1Spirit

Literal lunatic
Wrong! It is the Holy Spirit. James is speaking to Spirit filled saints.

No he is not.

Even the translators knew not to capitalize spirit here.

JAMES 4

3 Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.

4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

5 Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy?


Paul also is in agreement with James.

1 Corinthians 2:11
For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.


You have it backwards, the reason being, you have bought into the lie that the Holy Spirit cannot dwell inside a sinner.

This was taught to you by modern charismatics.
 

Cross Reference

New member
No he is not.

Even the translators knew not to capitalize spirit here.

JAMES 4

3 Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.

4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

5 Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy?


Paul also is in agreement with James.

1 Corinthians 2:11
For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.


You have it backwards, the reason being, you have bought into the lie that the Holy Spirit cannot dwell inside a sinner.

This was taught to you by modern charismatics.

I can't be bothered what you think. Get saved.
 

Sonnet

New member
One cannot analyze salvation by comparing it to the fall.

Adam was put under commands (Law) immediately, making the creature accountable to the Creator. Adam failed in this regard and was declared a guilty man.

Since the fall, the entire human race has only functioned under this sentence of guilt; meaning none can do good (Romans 3:10-19). However, the Law still stands, all men remain accountable, but no man can meet the moral standards of the Law.

Only one Man could and did fulfill all the Law for a people given to Him to redeem and reconcile to God.

Comparing the first choice of Adam, does not give any of us a choice to do good now or to find favor with God. It is too late. We can only throw ourselves upon the mercy of God and beg for His saving grace. (And when a soul does this, it is evidenced that soul is being drawn by the monergistic powers of God, to faith in Jesus Christ. John 6:37-40)

Anyone who murmurs against the above gives evidence they are none of His. John 6:40-58

Please carefully study these revelations given by the Lord Himself.

Is there any part of man's rebellion against God that has an independence from that which God predetermined to occur?
 

Nang

TOL Subscriber
Is there any part of man's rebellion against God that has an independence from that which God predetermined to occur?

Yes. God created man in His image, in that Adam was given the power of a (secondary) moral agency, and was able to cause and effect his duties, dominion, and surroundings. IOW's Adam was created with a consciousness and will that was responsible to function according to the word (commands) and revealed will of God. This responsibility came in the form of a forensic covenant promising life and or death, and so Adam was immediately accountable as to how he would function.

This Covenant of Works (Law) was predetermined by God, but Adam was truly given free agency to work in harmony with God. (Many theologians call this Adam's time of "probation.") As we know, Adam failed to so exercise his moral agency in obedience to God and broke this covenant that promised life; receiving the death sentence also promised therein.

So the Law works as the independent factor between God decrees and man's moral responsibilities before God.

I say "works" for the Law being eternal remains in effect to this present day. Just because Adam failed, and all his progeny failed after him, does not invalidate this Covenant of Works. All men are born into the world under this old Covenant, all are morally responsible to obey God's word and will, and because all men fail and fall short of the glory of God's word and will, death is universal. (The Man,Jesus, being the only exception.)

The only hope for receiving everlasting life comes by the grace of God and the new Covenant performed and ratified by Jesus Christ, who fulfilled all the Law and all human responsibility before God in His Incarnation life, death, and resurrection. This is the Gospel.

Mankind's moral agency has been corrupted thoroughly, and all men are imputed with the penalty of sin = death. So apart from God's grace, man now can only exercise his will according to his nature, which is totally sinful. Thus the denial that man's will is actually "free." Man chooses, but he only chooses to sin; remaining guilty in God's sight . . unless and until his heart, mind, and will are changed by the Holy Spirit, creating the sinner, anew, into a believing, obeying, sanctified, and justified (forgiven) sinner. Then, through faith in Jesus Christ and His work on his behalf, man is freed to again exercise his (secondary) moral agency rightly and choose to live in submission to God's word and will. Only through union with Christ, worked by His Holy Spirit regenerating new life and faith, is the death sentence pardoned, and the joy of receiving everlasting life is finally realized in any individual's lifetime.
 

patrick jane

BANNED
Banned
nang claims that if a person hears and believes the gospel that they were somehow regenerated just before hearing and believing. What a mess
 

Cross Reference

New member
And God made EVERYONE with a freewill to choose. So choose you this day whom will serve but, "as for me and my house we WILL serve the the Lord".

As it is often said, put that in your pipe and smoke it.
 

TulipBee

BANNED
Banned
And God made EVERYONE with a freewill to choose. So choose you this day whom will serve but, "as for me and my house we WILL serve the the Lord".

As it is often said, put that in your pipe and smoke it.
2016_06_07_22_49_57.jpg
 

Sonnet

New member
Yes. God created man in His image, in that Adam was given the power of a (secondary) moral agency, and was able to cause and effect his duties, dominion, and surroundings. IOW's Adam was created with a consciousness and will that was responsible to function according to the word (commands) and revealed will of God. This responsibility came in the form of a forensic covenant promising life and or death, and so Adam was immediately accountable as to how he would function.

This Covenant of Works (Law) was predetermined by God, but Adam was truly given free agency to work in harmony with God. (Many theologians call this Adam's time of "probation.") As we know, Adam failed to so exercise his moral agency in obedience to God and broke this covenant that promised life; receiving the death sentence also promised therein.

So the Law works as the independent factor between God decrees and man's moral responsibilities before God.

I say "works" for the Law being eternal remains in effect to this present day. Just because Adam failed, and all his progeny failed after him, does not invalidate this Covenant of Works. All men are born into the world under this old Covenant, all are morally responsible to obey God's word and will, and because all men fail and fall short of the glory of God's word and will, death is universal. (The Man,Jesus, being the only exception.)

The only hope for receiving everlasting life comes by the grace of God and the new Covenant performed and ratified by Jesus Christ, who fulfilled all the Law and all human responsibility before God in His Incarnation life, death, and resurrection. This is the Gospel.

Mankind's moral agency has been corrupted thoroughly, and all men are imputed with the penalty of sin = death. So apart from God's grace, man now can only exercise his will according to his nature, which is totally sinful. Thus the denial that man's will is actually "free." Man chooses, but he only chooses to sin; remaining guilty in God's sight . . unless and until his heart, mind, and will are changed by the Holy Spirit, creating the sinner, anew, into a believing, obeying, sanctified, and justified (forgiven) sinner. Then, through faith in Jesus Christ and His work on his behalf, man is freed to again exercise his (secondary) moral agency rightly and choose to live in submission to God's word and will. Only through union with Christ, worked by His Holy Spirit regenerating new life and faith, is the death sentence pardoned, and the joy of receiving everlasting life is finally realized in any individual's lifetime.

You allow for Adam exercising choice independent of that which was predetermined by God? This free agency of Adam you speak of appears to be freewill if so.
 
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