way 2 go
Well-known member
noticed you did not answer the question
how is a muslim better off rejecting Jesus than never hearing of Jesus?
Good News: Non-Christians, too, are in the Body of Christ!!!
- Thread starter Samie
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noticed you did not answer the question
how is a muslim better off rejecting Jesus than never hearing of Jesus?
No one's better off in rejecting Jesus, w2g.
Rejecting Jesus signifies one has been told about Jesus.
The Bible does not say that Abel was told about Jesus, yet Abel was one of the OT men of faith, despite not probably hearing about Him. So with Cyrus who the Bible labeled as God's anointed (Isa 45:1), yet probably haven't heard about Jesus.
way 2 go
Well-known member
so the muslim stays if he never hears.
Samie-
non-Christians - Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, etc. - are part of the Body of Christ
Samie-
Only those to whom the HS have sent someone to tell them about Christ can become guilty of REFUSAL
best case scenario in your view is to never hear of Jesus
Good News: Non-Christians, too, are in the Body of Christ!!!
Actually Gros, Did those men have works of Love, that are signant of the Spirit on their heart?
I'm not going to judge them, but apparently you have.
Also, wasn't Jesus a Universalist among us. Why do the the scriptures repeat over and over that He died for all?
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Actually Gros, Did those men have works of Love, that are signant of the Spirit on their heart?
I'm not going to judge them, but apparently you have.
Also, wasn't Jesus a Universalist among us. Why do the the scriptures repeat over and over that He died for all?
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It depends whether God through Christ will judge him as an overcomer or not.
Next question, please, w2g.
way 2 go
Well-known member
so those who never hear in your view they overcome.
in your view it is best not to hear of Jesus.
Samie-
Only those to whom the HS have sent someone to tell them about Christ can become guilty of REFUSAL
if the eunuch refused to acknowledge Jesus as personal Savior, then he would have been overcome by the evil of unbelief and would have been a non-overcomer instead of an overcomer. And only overcomers will make it to heaven and eternal life.
How are ya?
way 2 go
Well-known member
so you are not sure of what you want us to believe.
Samie-
Only those to whom the HS have sent someone to tell them about Christ can become guilty of REFUSAL
As I have said, it is God through Christ Who decides who the overcomers or non-overcomers are.
Next question, please, w2g.
Will you EVER get to 100 "Thanks?"
Peachy Keen Brother Gros. [emoji106]
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way 2 go
Well-known member
you teach that those who do not hear are not guilty of refusal
therefore
best case scenario in your view is to never hear of Jesus
Samie-
Only those to whom the HS have sent someone to tell them about Christ can become guilty of REFUSAL
Maybe not.
But numbers don't determine truth. Jesus was in the minority but He is the Truth. I think you are in the majority, Gros.
Pope Francis stated that even atheists can be saved. A cardinal stated exactly the same thing in a public debate, trying to save some face after being shunned by some homosexual in the audience (who was amply applauded).
There is nothing to say of this except that the RCC's clergy are not so ironclad as Catholics like to sit there and pretend it to be- even the pope said it which was essentially a grand error in a serendipitous moment. The Spirit was not swaying his words.
It took a rise of Catholic theologians to step in and say the truth, which needless to say isn't so loud a horn when everyone is bowing to a particular man.
There is nothing to say of this except that the RCC's clergy are not so ironclad as Catholics like to sit there and pretend it to be- even the pope said it which was essentially a grand error in a serendipitous moment. The Spirit was not swaying his words.
It took a rise of Catholic theologians to step in and say the truth, which needless to say isn't so loud a horn when everyone is bowing to a particular man.
Good News: Non-Christians, too, are in the Body of Christ!!!
The verses you keep relating to are Spiritually spoken to people who reject the power of God's grace after knowing it. For them, it is spoken to have been better to not have known the way of God, then to have fallen from it. To limit Jesus's Blood, after understanding it's radically unconditional Power is the full Spiritual revelation of this verses.
There is a fleshly meaning here, but the Spiritual supersedes the Carmel. This is about Grace and Jesus's saving work.
It is about knowing that Jesus Loves all, and falling from the extension of that UNCONDITIONAL Love.
It is not judgment to anyone as I quote it, but it syncs up with all scripture and especially Jesus's words in the Grace context.
2 Peter 2:20-22
20 For if, having escaped the world’s impurity through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in these things and defeated, the last state is worse for them than the first.
21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness than, after knowing it, to turn back from the holy command delivered to them.
22 It has happened to them according to the true proverb: A dog returns to its own vomit, and, “a sow, after washing itself, wallows in the mud.”
...................
Did Jesus cast the demons named legion out of the man by his request to Jesus?
Luke 8:26-39New International Version (NIV)
Jesus Restores a Demon-Possessed Man
26 They sailed to the region of the Gerasenes,[a] which is across the lake from Galilee. 27 When Jesus stepped ashore, he was met by a demon-possessed man from the town. For a long time this man had not worn clothes or lived in a house, but had lived in the tombs. 28 When he saw Jesus, he cried out and fell at his feet, shouting at the top of his voice, “What do you want with me, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I beg you, don’t torture me!” 29 For Jesus had commanded the impure spirit to come out of the man. Many times it had seized him, and though he was chained hand and foot and kept under guard, he had broken his chains and had been driven by the demon into solitary places.
30 Jesus asked him, “What is your name?”
“Legion,” he replied, because many demons had gone into him. 31 And they begged Jesus repeatedly not to order them to go into the Abyss.
32 A large herd of pigs was feeding there on the hillside. The demons begged Jesus to let them go into the pigs, and he gave them permission. 33 When the demons came out of the man, they went into the pigs, and the herd rushed down the steep bank into the lake and was drowned.
34 When those tending the pigs saw what had happened, they ran off and reported this in the town and countryside, 35 and the people went out to see what had happened. When they came to Jesus, they found the man from whom the demons had gone out, sitting at Jesus’ feet, dressed and in his right mind; and they were afraid. 36 Those who had seen it told the people how the demon-possessed man had been cured. 37 Then all the people of the region of the Gerasenes asked Jesus to leave them, because they were overcome with fear. So he got into the boat and left.
38 The man from whom the demons had gone out begged to go with him, but Jesus sent him away, saying, 39 “Return home and tell how much God has done for you.” So the man went away and told all over town how much Jesus had done for him.
And remember when Paul talks about falling from Grace?
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The verses you keep relating to are Spiritually spoken to people who reject the power of God's grace after knowing it. For them, it is spoken to have been better to not have known the way of God, then to have fallen from it. To limit Jesus's Blood, after understanding it's radically unconditional Power is the full Spiritual revelation of this verses.
There is a fleshly meaning here, but the Spiritual supersedes the Carmel. This is about Grace and Jesus's saving work.
It is about knowing that Jesus Loves all, and falling from the extension of that UNCONDITIONAL Love.
It is not judgment to anyone as I quote it, but it syncs up with all scripture and especially Jesus's words in the Grace context.
2 Peter 2:20-22
20 For if, having escaped the world’s impurity through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in these things and defeated, the last state is worse for them than the first.
21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness than, after knowing it, to turn back from the holy command delivered to them.
22 It has happened to them according to the true proverb: A dog returns to its own vomit, and, “a sow, after washing itself, wallows in the mud.”
...................
Did Jesus cast the demons named legion out of the man by his request to Jesus?
Luke 8:26-39New International Version (NIV)
Jesus Restores a Demon-Possessed Man
26 They sailed to the region of the Gerasenes,[a] which is across the lake from Galilee. 27 When Jesus stepped ashore, he was met by a demon-possessed man from the town. For a long time this man had not worn clothes or lived in a house, but had lived in the tombs. 28 When he saw Jesus, he cried out and fell at his feet, shouting at the top of his voice, “What do you want with me, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I beg you, don’t torture me!” 29 For Jesus had commanded the impure spirit to come out of the man. Many times it had seized him, and though he was chained hand and foot and kept under guard, he had broken his chains and had been driven by the demon into solitary places.
30 Jesus asked him, “What is your name?”
“Legion,” he replied, because many demons had gone into him. 31 And they begged Jesus repeatedly not to order them to go into the Abyss.
32 A large herd of pigs was feeding there on the hillside. The demons begged Jesus to let them go into the pigs, and he gave them permission. 33 When the demons came out of the man, they went into the pigs, and the herd rushed down the steep bank into the lake and was drowned.
34 When those tending the pigs saw what had happened, they ran off and reported this in the town and countryside, 35 and the people went out to see what had happened. When they came to Jesus, they found the man from whom the demons had gone out, sitting at Jesus’ feet, dressed and in his right mind; and they were afraid. 36 Those who had seen it told the people how the demon-possessed man had been cured. 37 Then all the people of the region of the Gerasenes asked Jesus to leave them, because they were overcome with fear. So he got into the boat and left.
38 The man from whom the demons had gone out begged to go with him, but Jesus sent him away, saying, 39 “Return home and tell how much God has done for you.” So the man went away and told all over town how much Jesus had done for him.
And remember when Paul talks about falling from Grace?
Sent from my iPad using TOL ~Jesus is the Theology and the Counselor is the Commentary
I don't share his view.
My position is if an atheist repents and overcomes the evil of being an atheist, maybe. But God is still the judge as to who the overcomers or non-overcomers are. Only overcomers can make it to heaven and eternal life. Rev 3:5; 21; 20:15; 21:27