Good article: "Who Radicalized the Finsbury Park Van Man?"

[Arthur Brain]

That we humans respond to physical stimuli, like light (your blue sky trick) or water (your wet trick) is NOT the same as what we find attractive. The former are scientifically verifiable, the later is not.

Then why don't you go into detail as to how you choose to find a woman physically attractive. List the decisions you make in order to determine that she's beautiful, because otherwise, frankly, you are just doggedly pursuing an argument you know holds no water. If I see a woman who catches my eye then it just happens, no choice in it, and it's happened plenty of times. I think any honest person here would testify to similar.

 

[Arthur Brain]

Perhaps that is true, but opinions vary on what is actually provable.

You, nor AB, cannot come anywhere close to proving that attraction is predetermined.

You haven't shown any rationality where it comes to attraction, seemingly insisting that being attracted to someone is a force of will instead of accepting that there's no choice involved in it whatsoever. It may be 'cliche' but what do you suppose the phrase 'love at first sight' is alluding to? If you've never had your 'breath taken away' by beauty then your loss, although it would explain why you're continuing with this ridiculous position of yours.

 

[Right Divider]

Then why don't you go into detail as to how you choose to find a woman physically attractive. List the decisions you make in order to determine that she's beautiful, because otherwise, frankly, you are just doggedly pursuing an argument you know holds no water. If I see a woman who catches my eye then it just happens, no choice in it, and it's happened plenty of times. I think any honest person here would testify to similar.

What do we have a choice about then?

My opinion of what makes a woman physically attractive has changed throughout my lifetime. What predetermines that?

 

[Arthur Brain]

What do we have a choice about then?

My opinion of what makes a woman physically attractive has changed throughout my lifetime. What predetermines that?

You have the choice to act on an attraction or not, along with plenty other things. You're not answering my questions either. Have you ever just been struck by a beautiful woman in your life? Been out and suddenly your attention is focussed on her because she's completely caught your eye by way of example even if just for a few seconds? If so, then what volitional choice did you have in any of that? If not, then do you actually go out at all?

 

[Right Divider]

You have the choice to act on an attraction or not, along with plenty other things. You're not answering my questions either. Have you ever just been struck by a beautiful woman in your life? Been out and suddenly your attention is focussed on her because she's completely caught your eye by way of example even if just for a few seconds? If so, then what volitional choice did you have in any of that? If not, then do you actually go out at all?

Every man has HIS own personal opinions about what makes a woman attractive.

That much is not rocket surgery.

Perhaps you'd be willing to provide your evidence for the "hard wired/no choice" version of attractiveness.

 

[Arthur Brain]

Every man has HIS own personal opinions about what makes a woman attractive.

That much is not rocket surgery.

Perhaps you'd be willing to provide your evidence for the "hard wired/no choice" version of attractiveness.

Why are you deliberately not answering my questions?

Here is the last one again:

Have you ever just been struck by a beautiful woman in your life? Been out and suddenly your attention is focussed on her because she's completely caught your eye by way of example even if just for a few seconds? If so, then what volitional choice did you have in any of that?

 

[Right Divider]

Why are you deliberately not answering my questions?

Here is the last one again:

Have you ever just been struck by a beautiful woman in your life? Been out and suddenly your attention is focussed on her because she's completely caught your eye by way of example even if just for a few seconds? If so, then what volitional choice did you have in any of that?

Just because I cannot quantify all of the multitude of criteria that I would use to determine the attractiveness of a woman does NOT, ipso facto prove that it's "hard wired" and "predetermined".

Please feel free to give your incontrovertible evidence that it is.

 

[Arthur Brain]

Just because I cannot quantify all of the multitude of criteria that I would use to determine the attractiveness of a woman does NOT, ipso facto prove that it's "hard wired" and "predetermined".

Please feel free to give your incontrovertible evidence that it is.

Why is this question so hard for you to answer?

:AMR:

You've never had your breath taken away by the sight of a beautiful woman, ever in your life? Had your attention drawn to her? Been taken aback by beauty, ever? I'm not interested in your 'multitude of criteria'. If you've ever had the experience I've just described then it was completely out of your control and you darned well know it. The fact that you haven't given an answer is more and more telling the further you avoid it.

 

[Right Divider]

Why is this question so hard for you to answer?

:AMR:

You've never had your breath taken away by the sight of a beautiful woman, ever in your life? Had your attention drawn to her? Been taken aback by beauty, ever? I'm not interested in your 'multitude of criteria'. If you've ever had the experience I've just described then it was completely out of your control and you darned well know it. The fact that you haven't given an answer is more and more telling the further you avoid it.

I don't believe that it was "out of my control".

You seem to be obsessed with uncontrollable actions with no explanation as to WHY they are uncontrollable.

 

[Arthur Brain]

I don't believe that it was "out of my control".

You seem to be obsessed with uncontrollable actions with no explanation as to WHY they are uncontrollable.

So is this a tacit admission that it has happened to you? Because if so then welcome to the experience of most, and you don't have time to formulate reasons or criteria as to why you've had your head turned by someone in a bar, on the street, in a library or wherever. So yes, it was in fact, out of your control, just as it is for me and anyone else. You can choose to mull over why that person was attractive to you, facial symmetry maybe, the colour of their eyes, the way their hair framed their face etc but in the moment itself? Nope.

You seem obsessed with applying control to an attraction that is instantaneous, which is bemusing.

 

[glorydaz]

Why is this question so hard for you to answer?

:AMR:

You've never had your breath taken away by the sight of a beautiful woman, ever in your life? Had your attention drawn to her? Been taken aback by beauty, ever? I'm not interested in your 'multitude of criteria'. If you've ever had the experience I've just described then it was completely out of your control and you darned well know it. The fact that you haven't given an answer is more and more telling the further you avoid it.

I've had my breath taken away by a beautiful woman before, and my attention was drawn to her because of her beauty....as with a beautiful sunset, the beauty of a mountain lake, the beauty of the night sky, the beauty of a man holding his child, the beauty of a soldier in full uniform standing guard. Why turn that into some kind of sexual attraction? Why insist a look of love involves lust?

 

[Arthur Brain]

I've had my breath taken away by a beautiful woman before, and my attention was drawn to her because of her beauty....as with a beautiful sunset, the beauty of a mountain lake, the beauty of the night sky, the beauty of a man holding his child, the beauty of a soldier in full uniform standing guard. Why turn that into some kind of sexual attraction? Why insist a look of love involves lust?

I'm not only not insisting that it does, it doesn't inform any part of my argument here whatsoever, so why are you bringing lust into the equation?

:AMR: