ECT God's grace: Can God arbitrarilly give it to anyone?

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Or is it really a love-hate issue?

My Bible reads that God gives it to whomever He finds favor. How does yours read?
 
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Cross Reference

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Faith pleases God.

Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,​

You must be alluding to this Grace: "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth." John 1:14 (KJV) ?? But then that would fit up with John 3:16 with God's love being the reason God bestowed it irrespective of man's spiritual disposition. However, we also might believe God bestowed His grace upon Jesus for Him to "hold in Trust" it being the ultimate Grace of God in a very legal way and for Him to dispense as He saw fit, eh? I like that. God giving it to a man without measure. One He could trust. ;)
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
You must alluding to this Grace: "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth." John 1:14 (KJV) ??

Which, speaking of salvation, would mean the shed blood. Grace is the "big tent" ....blood shed, and we access that grace through faith (which pleases God).
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
You must alluding to this Grace: "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth." John 1:14 (KJV) ??

Which, speaking of salvation, would mean the shed blood. Grace is the "big tent" ....blood shed, and we access that grace through faith (which pleases God). Romans 5:2

Hebrews 11:6
But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.​

We see it pictured in the Passover...when the death angel passed over the houses with the blood upon the lintel. That blood was God's grace and that special favour was unto the children of Israel who applied the blood through faith.
 

oatmeal

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Or is it really a love-hate issue?

My Bible reads that God gives it to whomever He finds favor. How does yours read?

I agree, it is entirely God's prerogative.

Of course, He promises us that grace, and we need it.

We can't earn it, after all, it is grace, but we most certainly can ask for it.
 

Cross Reference

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Which, speaking of salvation, would mean the shed blood. Grace is the "big tent" ....blood shed, and we access that grace through faith (which pleases God). Romans 5:2

Hebrews 11:6
But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.​

We see it pictured in the Passover...when the death angel passed over the houses with the blood upon the lintel. That blood was God's grace and that special favour was unto the children of Israel who applied the blood through faith.

True, however, there was nevertheless a requirement that needed to be satisfied, true?
Something they had to do beyond faith. . .faith without works wouldn't have passed muster. So in that regard using the the Passover, we might say that God found favor with them by their works and consequently were given His Grace because of their faith?
 
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oatmeal

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By that it I take you believe man doesn't need faith to receive grace after all?

You use terms differently than what I have learned them

Our responsibility is to believe God's words.

If a person is unsaved, it is by God's grace, not their own works that saves them, however they have to meet two requirements to receive that gift of salvation. Namely the two in Romans 10:9.

We have to do our part to receive, God does not force salvation/righteousness on us, we have to believe to receive it.

As a result of our believing God God can and does perform what He says He will do when we believe.

God uses various terms and phrases to describe that gift including salvation, righteousness, holy spirit, eternal life, born again of incorruptible seed and measure of faith.

We received the measure of faith that God gives

We believe and God gives

We have to hold out our hands, so to speak, but we cannot earn that gift for ourselves, we could not pay the price for it.
 

Cross Reference

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You use terms differently than what I have learned them

Our responsibility is to believe God's words.

If a person is unsaved, it is by God's grace, not their own works that saves them, however they have to meet two requirements to receive that gift of salvation. Namely the two in Romans 10:9.

We have to do our part to receive, God does not force salvation/righteousness on us, we have to believe to receive it.

As a result of our believing God God can and does perform what He says He will do when we believe.

God uses various terms and phrases to describe that gift including salvation, righteousness, holy spirit, eternal life, born again of incorruptible seed and measure of faith.

We received the measure of faith that God gives

We believe and God gives

We have to hold out our hands, so to speak, but we cannot earn that gift for ourselves, we could not pay the price for it.

So, in so many words, you are actually saying that no "measure of faith" is given man when he is physically birthed?

If a person is unsaved, it is by God's grace, not their own works that saves them, however they have to meet two requirements to receive that gift of salvation.Namely the two in Romans 10:9.
Re Romans 10:9 KJV: Are you forgetting your words here because obviously, by your reasoning, that would have been impossible. You are a reprobate, remember, totally depraved?


Did you read my reply to dazed in #9 post?

Perhaps you should review your understanding of who receives God mercy and not His grace to see the difference because : "It is of the LORD'S mercies that . . . . . are new every morning: great is thy [His] faithfulness." Lamentations 3:22-23 KJV. Therefore it is "Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us . . . " Titus 3:5 (KJV)
KJV)

God's mercy is not justification. For justification is there a price one must pay. It is the giving up of our rights to ourselves. They must die and there is only one way they can and it is not by any man-made doctrine one is enabled to perform it.

"This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men." Titus 3:8 (KJV)
 
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Truster

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Or is it really a love-hate issue?

My Bible reads that God gives it to whomever He finds favor. How does yours read?

His mercy is unto all of creation, but His grace is reserved for those He predetermined to receive eternal life.

All people receive the general revelation and many thing that because they know for certain the Creator exists that they are saved...not so. Many people receive of His mercy and think it means they are saved...not so.
 

Truster

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PS

The general revelation and receiving mercy is why many go in at the wide gate. This is why denominations and cults are so popular.
 

Cross Reference

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His mercy is unto all of creation, but His grace is reserved for those He predetermined to receive eternal life.

All people receive the general revelation and many thing that because they know for certain the Creator exists that they are saved...not so. Many people receive of His mercy and think it means they are saved...not so.

Why predetermined being the way God does things when God's mercy isn't necessarilly anything anyone might recognize even in their everyday lives?.. Doesn't the Bible declare: "How will they know unless a preacher is send"? So if a preacher isn't sent what do you believe the outcome can only be given you believe salvation is all about escaping hell-fire and damnation?

Jesus made it quite clear that that was NOT His reason for redeeming mankind.
 

Cross Reference

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PS

The general revelation and receiving mercy is why many go in at the wide gate. This is why denominations and cults are so popular.

Receiving God's mercy is the reason for the "wide gate"? I am assuming you to be a Calvinist when asking how can you believe that because even entering through the "wide gate" would necessitate you believing man wasn't born depraved?
 

Cross Reference

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His mercy is unto all of creation, but His grace is reserved for those He predetermined to receive eternal life.

You are simply saying God has had mercy on mankind who He is going to destroy? Perhaps He is showing His mercy to those He knows will destroy themselves that some might choose His way for their life when exposed to it. Ever hear of "Missionaries"?
 

nikolai_42

Well-known member
Or is it really a love-hate issue?

My Bible reads that God gives it to whomever He finds favor. How does yours read?

For the purposes of your post, how broadly (generally - or specifically) are you defining "Grace"? Depending on how you are understanding the key word, I think it is something primarily in the good will and pleasure of God to dispense grace. Paul's conversion seems an apt example (so, for that matter, does John Newton's) of Grace being given (from man's perspective) with no good cause. But we read the same apostle saying this :

What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

Romans 9:22-24

Verse 22 was what came to mind immediately because of the first 4 words - and primarily "willing". As I read that, it puts the verse (and those following) in a distinct light. One which has God's dispensation of wrath, mercy and riches entirely at His own discretion. Someone may say that God's wrath, however, is not capricious - so why should we expect His good gifts to be so. But when it is realized that there is none righteous and that all have sinned and fallen short of His glory then we are left with the understanding that any giving of Grace (in the way I am framing it here) is undeserved. At least in terms of works and earning it. The argument is given that God requires faith (He does!) to please Him. And we are even specifically told that anyone approaching Him must come in faith if he expects to receive anything. The man who is hedging his bets is sent away empty-handed. But returning to the passage, we nowhere find God looking for faith to justify His gifts. That the recipients will have faith - I have no doubt. But this is not a requirement in an eternal sense. God does not say "I will do this if..." but the passage says (essentially) "I will do this because...". The "because" is not anything found in man, but (again) God's desire to display "the riches of His glory". Which, if I read the text correctly, was something He determined long before you or I were even a twinkle in our mother or father's eye.

I have found (in myself) a desire to know things that I can only believe was put there by God. Along with that desire for understanding there is a tendency to equate knowing how things are done with knowing (in a more than cursory way) the thing under observation itself. And if I know that I do X and God will do Y (or some variant thereof) I risk reducing Him to a sort of cosmic vending machine that will give me what I want (or need) based on what I do. There is a clear sense of that in scripture - if My people who are called by My name etc... - and God does say IF you do THIS, then I will do THAT. And if you DON'T, then THIS OTHER THING will happen. But when it comes to God's giving of Grace, to say one can do something to receive it makes it a matter of one deserving it. A qualification upon which one can go to God and point to one's self as a reason for God to give. Aside from a need that makes one entirely dependent upon God (i.e. being totally unqualified to earn God's Grace), I can think of no scenario in which that approach endears us to God. Job's lamenting and protestations were to his righteousness - yet even he (a man God called His servant) had to repent in dust and ashes when he came face to face with the reality of who God was (and is). Paul says this :

For though I would desire to glory, I shall not be a fool; for I will say the truth: but now I forbear, lest any man should think of me above that which he seeth me to be, or that he heareth of me.
And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.
For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me.
And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.
Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.

2 Cor 12:6-10

He was given great understanding that would tempt him to think of himself as something - that he knew and understood God of himself and had a right to approach God as some great man. That understanding (revelation) would be the effective cause of him pointing to himself. If, that is, God didn't pierce his pride. The very thing that should point us to God and away from ourselves becomes that which puffs us up to make us think we understand God (and can, at some level, "work the system"). So the only requirement I can see (aside from faith - which God surely provides) is humility. Not to be a broken record, but the publican of Luke 18 epitomizes this.

And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

Luke 18:13-14

When we creatures think we have arrived because we know something (and so can use that to our own advantage with God), we are mistaken if we think we can expect Grace. It is given to those who need it - who are poor in spirit and can not live without God's provision - and recognize that. Which I think, in part, is why the hymnwriter said this :

I know not why God’s wondrous grace
To me He hath made known,
Nor why, unworthy, Christ in love
Redeemed me for His own.

But “I know Whom I have believed,
And am persuaded that He is able
To keep that which I’ve committed
Unto Him against that day.”
 

Truster

New member
You are simply saying God has had mercy on mankind who He is going to destroy? Perhaps He is showing His mercy to those He knows will destroy themselves that some might choose His way for their life when exposed to it. Ever hear of "Missionaries"?

He has mercy upon all creatures. His grace is reserved for the election of grace.

"Who giveth food to all flesh: for his mercy endureth for ever."
 

Truster

New member
Why predetermined being the way God does things when God's mercy isn't necessarilly anything anyone might recognize even in their everyday lives?.. Doesn't the Bible declare: "How will they know unless a preacher is send"? So if a preacher isn't sent what do you believe the outcome can only be given you believe salvation is all about escaping hell-fire and damnation?

Jesus made it quite clear that that was NOT His reason for redeeming mankind.

The next breath you take and the next beat of your heart is an act of mercy.
 

Truster

New member
Receiving God's mercy is the reason for the "wide gate"? I am assuming you to be a Calvinist when asking how can you believe that because even entering through the "wide gate" would necessitate you believing man wasn't born depraved?

I am not a twice dead Calvinist. Entering through the wide gate leads to destruction.
 
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