"[God] will have all men to be saved..."
- Thread starter musterion
- Start date
I'm holding off on the vote until I hear and see more. It does say God WILL have all men saved and come to the knowledge of the truth. However, simply coming to the knowledge of the truth is only part of it.
Or is it saying that God desires all to be saved ? I'm not sure
Last edited:
God would like for everyone to be saved, he takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked. However, Adam was told that if he sinned he would die twice, but Jesus shed his blood so that sin could be forgiven based on a person's repentance and faith toward God.
So now it is appointed that humans only die once and then be judged by what they say and do after their resurrection.
Jesus will not give life to a rebel.
So now it is appointed that humans only die once and then be judged by what they say and do after their resurrection.
Jesus will not give life to a rebel.
It shows God's wish, not reality.
glorydaz
Well-known member
God desires all men to come to the knowledge of the truth, but He knows not all will come.
His desire speaks to the lengths He goes to in drawing men to Himself. Paul's words here say it all.....
His desire speaks to the lengths He goes to in drawing men to Himself. Paul's words here say it all.....
2 Corinthians 5:20KJV
Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
God wants all men to be saved.
Ezekiel 33:11
John 3:16
2 Peter 3:9
So, we should pray for all....the context from verse 1.
1Ti 2:1 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
Paul is not teaching irresistible grace or universalism.
Ezekiel 33:11
John 3:16
2 Peter 3:9
So, we should pray for all....the context from verse 1.
1Ti 2:1 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
Paul is not teaching irresistible grace or universalism.
Arthur Brain
Well-known member
If God wills something or will have it come about, then who's any human to say He won't do it?
GOD has evidently ordained that man should have the freedom to choose.
glorydaz
Well-known member
Why would Paul say, "....as though God did beseech you...."?
2 Corinthians 5:20KJV
Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
And why would Jesus have said this?
Matthew 23:37KJV
O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
Because man WOULD NOT.
Arthur Brain
Well-known member
Choose what?
Unless you think that everyone who doesn't believe is "choosing" some sort of 'hell' then I'm not sure what this has to do with what God wills and even then really.
Arthur Brain
Well-known member
Still not seeing how this negates what God wills in the long run exactly. Is God's will ultimately usurped by man in your opinion? I doubt Saul was doing what God would have approved of pre conversion for example...
Choose between alternatives to whatever presents itself.
Certainly not consciously choosing a 'hell' which they know nothing about.
Arthur Brain
Well-known member
Considering the amount of differing theological opinions on 'hell' then the charge can hardly be laid on anyone actually choosing any form of it can it? If it's the grave then nobody chooses it as everyone dies.
The choice being offered in lieu of the inevitable death of all men, is eternal life in the presence of the Creator, in whose presence we were created to be. The obstacle to that desirable state is our sin or falling short. Part of the overall scheme, according to my take on it, is that man was created in the likeness of the Creator and thus will always exist somewhere. Our choice then, to choose not to be with the Creator, is to wind up in the default location, as we must be located somewhere. I call it GOD's junkyard. A junkyard is where items are placed which no longer measure up to the purpose for which they were intended. Hades is temporary, Gehenna is final.
Suit yourself.
Arthur Brain
Well-known member
Clarify:
Does everyone get an absolute choice in this whereby there's no doubt whatsoever what it is they're choosing. By that I mean, unequivocal certainty that they either choose one way or the other and not just 'finding faith' in a handful of years on this plain before the inevitability of physical death?
glorydaz
Well-known member
That's because you aren't seeing that God doesn't force man to come to Him for His Mercy and Grace.
He draws and beckons, and wants them to come, but He won't force them.
Much like you might the woman you love.
God allows man to refuse to come to Him.
He allows man's rebellion against Him.
It's God's plan, so man isn't usurping anything. Man is simply taking one of two roads which God has opened to him.
God allows man to rebel against Him. He didn't create us as puppets.
Dear Arthur Brain,
This is just to everyone in general, and of course, to you. I'm sure God would that all be saved, and man should certainly know by now that hell exists, for he has been warned of it enough. The things is, it is only written that the Antichrist, false prophet, and Satan, and Lucifer burn in the lake of fire forever. It is written that hell (which some souls now are in and some in the future may be for quite a while) will give up those in her and they shall be judged each one, according to their works. See Rev. 20:13,14KJV. Please see those verses in your Bible. Surely, quite a few may burn in hell for a while, but not forever. The ones who will burn forever are those who are destined to be cast into the Lake of Fire. Hell is the bottomless pit, and not the lake of fire. I could go further into it, but you might find it awkward. But if you need further explanation, just say so. But I'm sure that God would that many make it to heaven.
Much Love, In Christ,
Michael
Arthur Brain
Well-known member
But yet He will force them into a 'hell' if they don't find faith in one short existence here?
Also, doesn't every knee bow at some point and everyone give praise? So is that forced? Or freely given?
That simple huh? Everyone is consciously and in full knowledge 'choosing' one or the other are they?
So was Saul free to fall off his horse and be blinded then?
I don't ascribe to people being "puppets" exactly either.
glorydaz
Well-known member
I don't think people are choosing hell. They are choosing idols - lusts of the flesh, lusts of the eyes, and the pride of life (self).
1 Thess. 1:9 For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God;
They are simply refusing to trust in God. And God says we are without excuse because we were created to know God.
Romans 1:19-20
Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: