God Owes Us Big Time

[Nathon Detroit]

Semanitics? Really? I used actually twice. That's extremely petty.

I count three uses but hey.... who's counting?

This is why I think people here don't really want to answer, nor care about the unsaved.

ACTUALLY - I think we are proving rather nicely another point.

My point is, that unless Christ saved us all (which is a radical viewpoint), he hasn't won. If the devil can destroy or mislead the majority of souls, the devil has won. That is the point of the devil - to lead as many souls away from God as he can. If he leads more away than are brought to God, how has God one? Sure, God is the last one standing, but he's also lost the souls he loves.

Leading souls AWAY from Christ is NOT the point of the devil (it may be what he does but that isn't his intended purpose) therefore your point fails before it starts and there is no reason to consider any further.

Next!!!

 

[allsmiles]

Hold that thought Knight, what is the point of the devil?

 

[beanieboy]

Hold that thought Knight, what is the point of the devil?

My question as well.

I was taught that it was a battle for souls between God and Satan. That was why it was so important to go out and get people "saved" and win them to God's side.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Hold that thought Knight, what is the point of the devil?

Well... the devil is/was an angel who fell.

A good case can be made that he (the devil) was an angel sent to be as a "protector" in the garden. Yet, freewill is a VERY POWERFUL force. Satan used his freewill to turn from God as did many other angels.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

My question as well.

I was taught that it was a battle for souls between God and Satan. That was why it was so important to go out and get people "saved" and win them to God's side.

It's important to get people saved so that they don't spend eternity in hell with the burden of their sin upon them.

The devil is just one of many forces pulling men away from God.

 

[Lovejoy]

It's important to get people saved so that they don't spend eternity in hell with the burden of their sin upon them.

The devil is just one of many forces pulling men away from God.

Yeah, and even "battle" might not be the right word. It implies that God and Satan are at some kind of physical combat. The only "battle" in his the hearts of men, as the true victory has already occured, unless I am badly mistaken.

 

[Balder]

In the essay, “Jesus, Man of Sin: Toward a New Christology in the Global Era,” Buddhist Soho Machida writes:

The mind is like a haunted house that we have not yet completely explored. The underworld of human nature is unfathomably deep. Jesus shared this darkness with us. Let me quote one of my favorite parables in the Bible: “The scribes and the Pharisees brought a woman who had been caught in adultery, and placing her in the midst…Jesus bent down and wrote with his finger on the ground. And as they continued to ask him, he stood up and said to them, ‘Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her.’ And once more he bent down and wrote with his finger on the ground” (John 8:3-8). It is strange that no explanation is given about what Jesus was writing with his finger on the ground. In that silent gesture, was he not perhaps revealing an awareness within himself of the same evil nature as the woman’s? For one who shares in the common awareness of sin, it is impossible to judge another. Jesus’ attitude of love and tolerance toward weak and sinful ordinary people may originate not necessarily in his sacredness, but rather in his bond of sympathy with all other human beings as a Man of Sin. (63-64)

 

[Nathon Detroit]

beanie... I will meet you here.

 

[Agape4Robin]

Yeah, and even "battle" might not be the right word. It implies that God and Satan are at some kind of physical combat. The only "battle" in his the hearts of men, as the true victory has already occured, unless I am badly mistaken.

:LoJo: :thumb:

 

[Agape4Robin]

In the essay, “Jesus, Man of Sin: Toward a New Christology in the Global Era,” Buddhist Soho Machida writes:

The mind is like a haunted house that we have not yet completely explored. The underworld of human nature is unfathomably deep. Jesus shared this darkness with us. Let me quote one of my favorite parables in the Bible: “The scribes and the Pharisees brought a woman who had been caught in adultery, and placing her in the midst…Jesus bent down and wrote with his finger on the ground. And as they continued to ask him, he stood up and said to them, ‘Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her.’ And once more he bent down and wrote with his finger on the ground” (John 8:3-8). It is strange that no explanation is given about what Jesus was writing with his finger on the ground. In that silent gesture, was he not perhaps revealing an awareness within himself of the same evil nature as the woman’s? For one who shares in the common awareness of sin, it is impossible to judge another. Jesus’ attitude of love and tolerance toward weak and sinful ordinary people may originate not necessarily in his sacredness, but rather in his bond of sympathy with all other human beings as a Man of Sin. (63-64)

:kookoo:

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Yeah, and even "battle" might not be the right word. It implies that God and Satan are at some kind of physical combat. The only "battle" in his the hearts of men, as the true victory has already occured, unless I am badly mistaken.

It is a spititual battle and I think battle is a great word for it.

Onward, Christian soldiers,
Marching as to war,
With the cross of Jesus
Going on before!
Christ, the royal Master,
Leads against the foe;
Forward into battle,
See his banner go!
Onward, Christian soldiers,
Marching as to war,
With the cross of Jesus
Going on before!

At the sign of triumph
Satan’s host doth flee;
On, then, Christian soldiers,
On to victory!
Hell’s foundations quiver
At the shout of praise;
Brothers, lift your voices,
Loud your anthems raise!
Onward, Christian soldiers,
Marching as to war,
With the cross of Jesus
Going on before!

Like a mighty army
Moves the church of God;
Brothers, we are treading
Where the saints have trod;
We are not divided;
All one body we,
One in hope and doctrine,
One in charity.
Onward, Christian soldiers,
Marching as to war,
With the cross of Jesus
Going on before!

Onward, then, ye people,
Join our happy throng,
Blend with ours your voices
In the triumph song;
Glory, laud, and honor,
Unto Christ the King;
This thro’ countless ages
Men and angels sing.
Onward, Christian soldiers,
Marching as to war,
With the cross of Jesus
Going on before!

 

[Lovejoy]

It is a spititual battle and I think battle is a great word for it.

Onward, Christian soldiers,
Marching as to war,
With the cross of Jesus
Going on before!
Christ, the royal Master,
Leads against the foe;
Forward into battle,
See his banner go!
Onward, Christian soldiers,
Marching as to war,
With the cross of Jesus
Going on before!

At the sign of triumph
Satan’s host doth flee;
On, then, Christian soldiers,
On to victory!
Hell’s foundations quiver
At the shout of praise;
Brothers, lift your voices,
Loud your anthems raise!
Onward, Christian soldiers,
Marching as to war,
With the cross of Jesus
Going on before!

Like a mighty army
Moves the church of God;
Brothers, we are treading
Where the saints have trod;
We are not divided;
All one body we,
One in hope and doctrine,
One in charity.
Onward, Christian soldiers,
Marching as to war,
With the cross of Jesus
Going on before!

Onward, then, ye people,
Join our happy throng,
Blend with ours your voices
In the triumph song;
Glory, laud, and honor,
Unto Christ the King;
This thro’ countless ages
Men and angels sing.
Onward, Christian soldiers,
Marching as to war,
With the cross of Jesus
Going on before!

That is, of course, a lovely song, and a profound metaphor for what we face. My dislike for the term "battle" (though for some reason I often call it "spiritual warfare") is when it is used as a reference between God and Satan (as it was in the above post). It is not a battle between them, as such, as God cannot lose to Satan. There is no real fight there. The term battle always seems to imply some kind of polar conflict between relatively equal forces of good and evil. As well, whatever conflict was there was essentially settled with Christ. It is a battle between man and Satan, and that one we can lose if we do not choose Christ. Do you see what I am saying? Even in the Revelation the fight is, in essense, to settle who the last soul to come to Christ will be, as Satan is beaten before the fight even begins.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

That is, of course, a lovely song, and a profound metaphor for what we face. My dislike for the term "battle" (though for some reason I often call it "spiritual warfare") is when it is used as a reference between God and Satan (as it was in the above post). It is not a battle between them, as such, as God cannot lose to Satan. There is no real fight there.

Wow... I really disagree.

Just because God isn't going to lose doesn't mean there isn't a battle. In fact... Satan has won many skirmishes in the battle.

The term battle always seems to imply some kind of polar conflict between relatively equal forces of good and evil.

The US Army is battling the IRAQI forces yet they aren't equal in power.

 

[Lovejoy]

Wow... I really disagree.

Just because God isn't going to lose doesn't mean there isn't a battle. In fact... Satan has won many skirmishes in the battle.

The US Army is battling the IRAQI forces yet they aren't equal in power.

That's okay. It is not as if I don't see it as a struggle, or that there will not be losses (there already have been losses), I just don't prefer the images that the word brings. I even concede that the day to day Christian life is a spiritual fight. I am just looking for words that will describe the Christian life without giving the wrong impression of the nature of the conflict. Christ, for sure, has already won, but you and I can still lose. I always worry that saying "battle" gives non-believers the idea that Christ can still lose. Certainly, I could be wrong about this.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

I am just looking for words that will describe the Christian life without giving the wrong impression of the nature of the conflict.

All the more reason to use a fitting term like "battle".

 

[Lovejoy]

All the more reason to use a fitting term like "battle".

Admit it, I worry too much! Picking my words is like my wife picking clothes, takes forever am never satisfied. Ah well...To Battle, Christian Soldiers!!

 

[julie21]

...I see it this way... that though the major battle has been won by Christ, we are the one's still in the field maintaining the vigilant watch over each other and those not yet in the fold, as satan doesn't yet realise the main campaign battle is over, and he will forever keep on attacking the foot soldiers to get as many casualties notched up on his belt as he can.Therefore we all need to pick up and put on the Armour that God has given us to use in this campaign, to protect ourselves against his insurgent skirmishes.

 

[Lovejoy]

...I see it this way... that though the major battle has been won by Christ, we are the one's still in the field maintaining the vigilant watch over each other and those not yet in the fold, as satan doesn't yet realise the main campaign battle is over, and he will forever keep on attacking the foot soldiers to get as many casualties notched up on his belt as he can.Therefore we all need to pick up and put on the Armour that God has given us to use in this campaign, to protect ourselves against his insurgent skirmishes.

I have no prolem with that. My question was never with Christian perspectives though, but rather with the world's perspective.

 

[justchristian]

In the battle of heaven and earth I have always concidered Satan to be in the know that victory is out of reach. I don't think he fights with the strategy to win but to take as many of us down with him. He's almost like a corned animal taking one last swipe at the world before being cast into the lake of fire. This metaphor however is incomplete as a animal acts out of fear while satan acts out of hate.When i think about Satan taking that last swipe at earth i concider the overwhelming ultimate glory in God's victory and Satan's swipe is but a pebble on a gravel road. Anyway justa thought..i am new at this whole forum thing.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Admit it, I worry too much! Picking my words is like my wife picking clothes, takes forever am never satisfied. Ah well...To Battle, Christian Soldiers!!

:BRAVO: