ECT God never predestines anyone to hell.
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Cross Reference
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Word based mystic
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John 3:15 and 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth on him should not perish, but have eternal life. 17For God sent not the Son into the world to judge the world; but that the world should be saved through him.
The judgement of whoever ends up not believing has already be predetermined. The person has not been predetermined but rather (whomsoever) ends up not believing shall suffer destruction.
We all are drawn and given the opportunity for Being born again. Because Christ Came to 1 tim 1:15 It is a trustworthy statement, deserving full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners,
this combined with John 3:16 Shows the desire for God that all men would have the opportunity for salvation.
Otherwise why commission His followers to evangelize, pray for the lost, Share the gospel to (all) creatures/creation.
The judgement of whoever ends up not believing has already be predetermined. The person has not been predetermined but rather (whomsoever) ends up not believing shall suffer destruction.
We all are drawn and given the opportunity for Being born again. Because Christ Came to 1 tim 1:15 It is a trustworthy statement, deserving full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners,
this combined with John 3:16 Shows the desire for God that all men would have the opportunity for salvation.
Otherwise why commission His followers to evangelize, pray for the lost, Share the gospel to (all) creatures/creation.
Cross Reference
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Let the mis-representation of this understanding from the untoward doctrinaires, begin.
Everytime you post, you hijack your own thread!
Livelystone
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Not as simple as it sounds
There are a lot of good persons in the world doing good deeds who do not believe in Jesus.
However Jesus did not come for those already living good lives but sinners called to repentance
Every one of those good persons who do not believe in Jesus are sinners who until they are called to repentance are never going to come to Jesus.
Meanwhile, all Christians (persons with the Holy Spirit) have been given the power to become sons of God.
Unfortunately, many (most) are satisfied with the belief that because they believe in Jesus they get a free get out jail card from all responsibility. Consequently, the most they ever do is show up one day a week and throw some money in the collection plate. They never give their lives to Christ let alone become 100 fold overcomers in the image and likeness of the one who gave His life for them
Matt.2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.
28 And I will give him the morning star.
Now you're blaming GM for making you grouchy?
You should be thankful I even addressed you?
Cross Reference
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Blaming?? That wouldn't be necessary.
Most certainly not God's fault, CR. Cain had a choice, and he premeditated the murder of his innocent brother, and buried the evidence (Genesis 4:10 KJV). Nonetheless, God interestingly didn't snuff Cain out, even after Cain lied about his deed (Genesis 4:9 KJV). Cain begged mercy still (Genesis 4:14 KJV) fearing a human (assuming Seth, et al) would find him out, and snuff him (Genesis 4:14 KJV). Following Cain's anonymity among the Sethites, Cain got down to business siring Enoch and built a city (Genesis 4:17 KJV). Do you think that was part of God's plan for Cain? Or, do you think that was part of Cain's plan for Satan?
See... this brings into question Word based mystic's comment:
Was Cain obeying God when he sired Enoch and built a city? Doesn't that sound a little generous for a premeditating liar and murderer? Were Cain's descendants part of God's plan when God granted mercy to Cain the second time? With full appreciation for Word based mystic's comment, I kinda get the impression Cain's fatherhood was not part of God's deal... and, I think the flood may have been His response to Cain's disobedience towards God's second act of mercy. Do you think Cain ever repented for lying, and for premeditating the murder of Abel? What kind of father do you guys think Cain was, anyway? I'm of the opinion Cain was the original 'dead beat sperm donor.'
kayaker
You're right! You shouldn't have said it to begin with? It's
Valentines Day for crying out loud!
God shows His Grace, it's up to you to place your "TOTAL" faith
in Christ, and not yourself!
That is works of self.
If you truly had faith in Christ then you would display some grace, compassion, care for the hearts of others.
Eph 4:32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.
LA
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Where or how do you come with such understanding of what transpired? Whose books are you reading?
musterion
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Never stops you from doing it in MAD threads.
musterion
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This is absolutely not a minor doctrine. A whole lot depends on which side of the issue we're on, with most of us usually never examining why.
Cross Reference
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Indeed, this doctrine is a spin off of Calvin whose doctrine has been the bane of Christendom.
I cautiously trust you ask in sincerity, CR. I read the Books of Moses, Genesis mostly. I read the Books of the NT. I tend to ask myself a lot of questions, and seek answers in the Bible. You OP was about God predestinating folk to hell. It's an interesting topic! I don't think God predestines folk to hell... but, that doesn't mean a father cannot stack the odds against his progeny. Appreciating Word based mystic's quote that he can't imagine a father doing such... then, let me ask for clarity, I beg your patience:
If a father knew beyond a shadow of doubt that when he sired a child, that the child would irrefutably be born an insulin-dependent diabetic... would or should he father the child? If said father was genetically advised that EVERY one of his future children would be insulin-dependent, would or should the man become a father, at all? To sophisticate this scenario... how about a man whose children would irrefutably be born with cystic fibrosis, with a dramatically shortened life span including suffering significant medical complications...
I asked several thought provoking questions in my first post. Why didn't Cain get the death penalty in the first place? God extended mercy first by not snuffing Cain. Do you hear any remorse from Cain in Genesis 4:14 KJV, or anywhere else? Cain premeditated the murder of Abel (Genesis 4:8 KJV), no indication of an accidental death. Do you have any differing opinion? Premeditated murder sounds like motive to hide any evidence, then. Cain lied about his horrific act before God even let on He knew what Cain had done (Genesis 4:9 KJV). Abel's body obviously wasn't in view when God quizzed Cain up. God said Abel's blood cried to him from the ground... there was no visible evidence with a motive to hide it: Cain buried Abel. Simple enough to me.
Cain showed no remorse when he pleaded for mercy that someone will find him and kill him (Genesis 4:14). Who else would kill Cain but Seth, et al? God set a mark on Cain that no one who find him. Therefore, was Cain a free man? Did God place some condition upon Cain, the equivalent to parole? How do you reconcile Cain starting a family and building a city being the exhibition of the righteousness of God? Do you think Cain got off scot-free for lying about, and premeditating the murder of his brother?
Can you imagine Cain's descendants were dealt a bad card from a stacked deck, akin to a father who sired a child knowing the child will be terribly afflicted? So... no, I don't subscribe to the notion God predestines folk to hell. But, I'm not letting the dead beat sperm-donor Cain off the hook. Unless you perceive that God let Cain off scot-free, then what condition did God put upon Cain? Do you see any correlation with the flood? What about Cain's great... grandson Lamech in Genesis 4:23 KJV, Genesis 4:24 KJV? Did the apple not far from the tree?
Were Cain's descendants predisposed to generally be adversarial against Seth, et al? Was Cain doing the will of God siring Enoch and building a city in Nod? Or, was Cain doing the will of Satan?
kayaker