God made the wicked !

[beloved57]

Prov 16:4

⁴ The Lord hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

Who are the wicked here? I believe the wicked here are those God created to be vessels of wrath. Rom 9:21-22

²¹ Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

²² What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction

They're the damned or condemned of mankind being reserved for the day of wrath!

Job 21:30

That the wicked is reserved to the day of destruction? they shall be brought forth to the day of wrath.

 

[Nanja]

Prov 16:4

⁴ The Lord hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

Who are the wicked here? I believe the wicked here are those God created to be vessels of wrath. Rom 9:21-22

²¹ Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

²² What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction

They're the damned or condemned of mankind being reserved for the day of wrath!

Job 21:30

That the wicked is reserved to the day of destruction? they shall be brought forth to the day of wrath.

Amen Brother, God made the wicked, vessels of wrath Rom. 9:22, for Himself for the day of evil, for His Purpose of destroying them with everlasting destruction: And all according to the Counsel of His Own Will Eph. 1:11.

He gave them a physical being and existence so He could punish them for their wickedness.

2 Thess. 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

 

[beloved57]

Amen Brother, God made the wicked, vessels of wrath Rom. 9:22, for Himself for the day of evil, for His Purpose of destroying them with everlasting destruction: And all according to the Counsel of His Own Will Eph. 1:11.

He gave them a physical being and existence so He could punish them for their wickedness.

2 Thess. 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Amen Sister, may God keep us steadfast in the truth! May we magnify His Grace for making some as Vessels of Mercy!

 

[Nanja]

Amen Sister, may God keep us steadfast in the truth! May we magnify His Grace for making some as Vessels of Mercy!

Absolutely and Amen Brother !

2 Tim. 1:12 For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.

 

[beloved57]

The wicked are they God in His Sovereignty hath appointed, destined to disobedience! 1 Pet 2:8

⁸ And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.

 

[Nanja]

The wicked are they God in His Sovereignty hath appointed, destined to disobedience! 1 Pet 2:8

⁸ And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.

This scripture 1 Pet. 2:8 clearly shows that even sinners and reprobates were predestined of God, and that the end result or outcome for these vessels of God's wrath is Eternal death, utter ruin and misery; being punished with everlasting destruction.

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings Nanja,

This scripture 1 Pet. 2:8 clearly shows that even sinners and reprobates were predestined of God, and that the end result or outcome for these vessels of God's wrath is Eternal death, utter ruin and misery; being punished with everlasting destruction.

At least you seem to not teach everlasting torture in hell. I do not accept the rest of your and beloved57's teaching, as if most of mankind cannot believe, I believe that God in his love has set forth his Son so that whomsoever believes in him will not perish but have everlasting life John 3:16. We have the freewill to choose or reject.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[Nanja]

Greetings Nanja,At least you seem to not teach everlasting torture in hell. I do not accept the rest of your and beloved57's teaching, as if most of mankind cannot believe, I believe that God in his love has set forth his Son so that whomsoever believes in him will not perish but have everlasting life John 3:16. We have the freewill to choose or reject.

Kind regards
Trevor

1. Everlasting torment is scriptural Rev. 21:8; Rev 14:11 !

2. The only believing / faith that pleases God is a fruit of the Spirit given in New Birth Gal. 5:22.

3. Dan. 4:35 - And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

 

[JudgeRightly]

https://youtu.be/NnYH7sesa68

 

[beloved57]

1. Everlasting torment is scriptural Rev. 21:8; Rev 14:11 !

2. The only believing / faith that pleases God is a fruit of the Spirit given in New Birth Gal. 5:22.

3. Dan. 4:35 - And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

Amen to all 3 points!

 

[Nanja]

Amen to all 3 points!

Amen Brother!

 

[WonderfulLordJesus]

"God made the wicked !"

Now, I heard tell Calvin made the wicked. Of course, that could be who you guys are referring to as God.

Anyway, carry on. At this juncture, roasting some babies on a spit and a flurry of Amen Brother Sisters would be in order.

Hey! How about some inconvenient verses again, as long as I'm hanging around?

2 Timothy 4:1-4 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

1 Kings 18:21 And Elijah came unto all the people, and said, How long halt ye between two opinions? if the LORD be God, follow him: but if Baal, then follow him. And the people answered him not a word.

Deuteronomy 11:26-29 Behold, I set before you this day a blessing and a curse; A blessing, if ye obey the commandments of the LORD your God, which I command you this day: And a curse, if ye will not obey the commandments of the LORD your God, but turn aside out of the way which I command you this day, to go after other gods, which ye have not known.

Deuteronomy 30:19-20 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live: That thou mayest love the LORD thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.

Joshua 24:15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

John 3:14-16 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John 5:39-40 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

John 6:28-29 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Luke 7:50 And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.

Acts 10:34-35 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

Acts 17:30-31 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

1 Timothy 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

1 Timothy 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all man, specially of those that believe.

Hebrews 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

Revelation 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

 

[beloved57]

"God made the wicked !"

Now, I heard tell Calvin made the wicked. Of course, that could be who you guys are referring to as God.

Anyway, carry on. At this juncture, roasting some babies on a spit and a flurry of Amen Brother Sisters would be in order.

Hey! How about some inconvenient verses again, as long as I'm hanging around?

2 Timothy 4:1-4 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

1 Kings 18:21 And Elijah came unto all the people, and said, How long halt ye between two opinions? if the LORD be God, follow him: but if Baal, then follow him. And the people answered him not a word.

Deuteronomy 11:26-29 Behold, I set before you this day a blessing and a curse; A blessing, if ye obey the commandments of the LORD your God, which I command you this day: And a curse, if ye will not obey the commandments of the LORD your God, but turn aside out of the way which I command you this day, to go after other gods, which ye have not known.

Deuteronomy 30:19-20 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live: That thou mayest love the LORD thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.

Joshua 24:15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

John 3:14-16 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John 5:39-40 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

John 6:28-29 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Luke 7:50 And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.

Acts 10:34-35 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

Acts 17:30-31 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

1 Timothy 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

1 Timothy 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all man, specially of those that believe.

Hebrews 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

Revelation 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

Did Calvin write Prov 16:4

The Lord hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

 

[WonderfulLordJesus]

Did Calvin write Prov 16:4

The Lord hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

Your error, and that of many, is some Johnny-one-verse doctrinal view that fails to take into account the whole context of Bible scripture. What you believe, as clearly demonstrated, is in contradiction of much clear scripture: your "God" is even a monster of huge proportions, that is not God. God is the Creator, and He made everybody, but He did not make us what we are for evil, period. You fail to have a fundamental concept of holiness, Holy, Holy, Holy, that, in God, there is no sin. But I must say I don't really expect to get anywhere with people like you, that subscribe to the evil TULIP cult, as Calvinism takes precedence over the word of God to you, and I've seldom seen those that cling to lies, with such enthusiasm, repent. So, I'm not here to argue with you, either. Scripture speaks for itself. Trying reading the scripture I posted, only try paying attention to what it says, for a change. Otherwise, do another round of Amen Bristers with your disciple. You know, two people filled with error, two cult tares, praising each other, proves nothing: it only gets old, becomes a joke. But you guys are at least good for a laugh, I'll give you that.

2 Peter 2:1-3 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of. And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Just what part of that is it you guys don't understand, the Lord, the not willing, or the any part, the all part, or all of the above? I'm thinking all of the above, especially the Lord part.

 

[beloved57]

Your error, and that of many, is some Johnny-one-verse doctrinal view that fails to take into account the whole context of Bible scripture. What you believe, as clearly demonstrated, is in contradiction of much clear scripture: your "God" is even a monster of huge proportions, that is not God. God is the Creator, and He made everybody, but He did not make us what we are for evil, period. You fail to have a fundamental concept of holiness, Holy, Holy, Holy, that, in God, there is no sin. But I must say I don't really expect to get anywhere with people like you, that subscribe to the evil TULIP cult, as Calvinism takes precedence over the word of God to you, and I've seldom seen those that cling to lies, with such enthusiasm, repent. So, I'm not here to argue with you, either. Scripture speaks for itself. Trying reading the scripture I posted, only try paying attention to what it says, for a change. Otherwise, do another round of Amen Bristers with your disciple. You know, two people filled with error, two cult tares, praising each other, proves nothing: it only gets old, becomes a joke. But you guys are at least good for a laugh, I'll give you that.

2 Peter 2:1-3 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of. And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Just what part of that is it you guys don't understand, the Lord, the not willing, or the any part, the all part, or all of the above? I'm thinking all of the above, especially the Lord part.

You failed to answer. Did Calvin write Prov 16:4?

 

[clefty]

Prov 16:4

⁴ The Lord hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

LOL...so you wish for Him to purposely make some to only be wicked to prove He can destroy? What monsters you project...

Lucifer himself was rebellious and rather than destroyed outright for insubordination he was reserved for a special day of Judgement...Lucifer’s choice to rebel was made to glorify Him His Justice...Judgement Day...Lucifer was given GRACE...his own planet...

but you have the Creator make just to destroy...

Adam and Eve deserved instant death their choice of disobedience and rebellion and yet were ALSO MADE FOR THE GLORY OF HIM...not killed outright but for final judgement day...that was grace...mercy...to His glory

Israel chose to disobey were SPARED...for day of Judgement TO HIS GLORY...their evil TO HIS GLORY

Even poor Pharoah “WAS MADE” for His glory...but He merely HARDENED a heart already in rebellion...

Who are the wicked here? I believe

good for you...that is ALSO your choice and will be useful TO HIS GLORY...your error that is...a teaching tool to warn others of making idols and Him a monster He is NOT...

the wicked here are those God created to be vessels of wrath. Rom 9:21-22

²¹ Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

Artists who willfully create work to merely destroy it is a symptom of a diabolical age...Saturn eats his own...you would have Our Creator do the same?

²² What if God,

notice Paul asks? Setting up a premise...

willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known,

for a greater purpose...

endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction

His power to endure with much longsuffering vessels of wrath fitted to destruction DOES NOT MEAN HE MADE THEM

or for merely the purpose to destroy...or torture forever...

They're the damned or condemned of mankind being reserved for the day of wrath!

right... having chosen to rebel they are ENDURED with LONGSUFFERING and until JUDGEMENT DAY...

damned and condemned for choices they made...NOT CREATED TO BE TORTURED FOREVER...

Job 21:30

That the wicked is reserved to the day of destruction? they shall be brought forth to the day of wrath.

the wicked is reserved IS NOT the wicked were created by Him to be ONLY WICKED...so that He can destroy with His wrath...

He DOES do bad things...Isaiah 45:7 Amos 3:6 but FOR A PURPOSE...

He is a consuming fire...IMMORTAL

but yours would have us FEAR HELL as if He made it to torture us forever...

rather than desire refinement to be purified and made Holy by Him...



and NOW add to “Hell” that He MADE SOME TO BURN FOREVER just for what? FEAR MONGERING?

that is the problem with idolatry...one lie births another and then yet another...

but yours is the spirit of the AGE...as our cities burn and people hate...it stems from a hatred of the Law...a desire to defund the police...and comes from Hatred of a Tyrant...they IMAGINE...they CREATE

 

[chair]

Are we playing "collect scattered verses to prove X"?

 

[clefty]

Are we playing "collect scattered verses to prove X"?

Sure...wanna play? Betcha pretty good at it...

solving for x in this case is that Yah does evil...

Jer 11:8 for instance...because verse 9...and so it goes...still today

but you know all about this...

 

[beloved57]

Are we playing "collect scattered verses to prove X"?

Hi so did Calvin write Prov 16:4?

 

[Gary K]

Calvin also wrote this. It comes from chapter 1 of his Commentaries of the Epistles of Paul to the Romans.

For the obedience of faith, &c.—That is, we have received a command to preach the gospel among all nations, and this gospel they obey by faith. By stating the design of his calling, he again reminds the Romans of his office, as though he said, “It is indeed my duty to discharge the office committed to me, which is to preach the word; and it is your duty to hear the word and willingly to obey it; you will otherwise make void the vocation which the Lord has bestowed on me.”

We hence learn, that they perversely resist the authority of God and upset the whole of what he has ordained, who irreverently and contemptuously reject the preaching of the gospel; the design of which is to constrain us to obey God. We must also notice here what faith is; the name of obedience is given to it, and for this reason—because the Lord calls us by his gospel; we respond to his call by faith; as on the other hand, the chief act of disobedience to God is unbelief, I prefer rendering the sentence, “For the obedience of faith,” rather than, “In order that they may obey the faith;” for the last is not strictly correct, except taken figuratively, though it be found once in the Acts, vi. 7. Faith is properly that by which we obey the gospel.1

Hmmmm.... That isn't what you guys are teaching. It's far from it.

Calvin also said this:

At the same time, as he works not effectually in all, but only where the Spirit, the inward Teacher, illuminates the heart, he subjoins, To every one who believeth. The gospel is indeed offered to all for their salvation, but the power of it appears not everywhere: and that it is the savour of death to the ungodly, does not proceed from what it is, but from their own wickedness. By setting forth but one salvation he cuts off every other trust. When men withdraw themselves from this one salvation, they find in the gospel a sure proof of their own ruin. Since then the gospel invites all to partake of salvation without any difference, it is rightly called the doctrine of salvation: for Christ is there offered, whose peculiar office is to save that which was lost; and those who refuse to be saved by him, shall find him a Judge. But everywhere in Scripture the word salvation is simply set in opposition to the word destruction: and hence we must observe, when it is mentioned, what the subject of the discourse is. Since then the gospel delivers from ruin and the curse of endless death, its salvation is eternal life.

Notice Calvin says "refuse to be saved". Not created unable to be saved. You can only "refuse" that which is offered to you and that you are capable of accepting.

And then Paul tells us this:

Romans 12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

Note that everyone is given the same measure of faith for "the" means there is only one measure of faith meted to all mankind.