God and Evil

[George Affleck]

His power and presence were still available to his followers, even after his death.

This fact was described and re-interpreted in many different ways by the early church. "Taken up," "Sitting at the Right Hand of God," "resurrection," were only a few of the ways the Jesus people used to make the scandal of Jesus's death on the cross meaningful to them.

Thus, the embarrassment and the despair were turned into a triumph.

You are talking about fishermen who, you say, became accomplished spin doctors to avoid embarrassment and despair. There's a reality here that you are missing. These guys were not independently wealthy. I don't think there was much money to be had back then for selling Jesus to the Jews. The only payment for supporting the bodily resurrection of Jesus was death.

People will sometimes die for a lie that they believe is the truth. But if the resurrection did not literally happen, the disciples knew it because they lived it. They would not die for a lie that they knew was a lie. They'd just go back to fishing.

Consider Peter. He was all "I never knew the man!" during the arrest and trial. What occurred to make Peter willing to die for Jesus? Was it that he knew Jesus stayed dead?

Christianity sprang from the reality of the resurrection. People who call themselves Christian and do not hold to this essential truth are fooling themselves.

Better take 'Christian' off your profile.
Just trying to save you the "embarrassment and despair".

 

[George Affleck]

Bump:

Well, seeing as have Christmas behind us, are there any new things we can add to the list we have here about good and evil? Or should we consolidate some of them?

So far we have this:

1. Discriminatory judgements from ignorance cannot be compared to God's perfect discernment regarding skin colour or prayer importance. It is He alone who looks on the heart. Jer 17:10KJV
fishrovmen

2. What is considered suffering in this world is a blink of an eye in comparison to eternity after death. Rom 8:18KJV 1Cor 2:9KJV
patrick jane, glorydaz

3. What logic compels a person to conclude there is no God because some do not worship Him properly? God knows this already. Mat 23:27KJV Ps 51:6KJV
fishrovmen, George Affleck

4. Affliction and hardship is the natural outworking of a broken world and verification that sin is dynamic, real and has permeated every facet of creation. Rom 8:22KJV
6days, George Affleck

5. How much evil/suffering or prayers of "minutia" would need to be eliminated for this question to never be asked? If evil/suffering were completely eliminated and all was good, who would seek God? A faith unable to be tried is no faith at all. 2Ch 33:12KJV Ps 50:15KJV
fishrovmen, George Affleck, fzappa13

6. Although we can learn much, the full answer to why evil/suffering is in the world is wrapped up in the infinite wisdom of God and cannot be fully comprehended or appreciated. It is sufficient to say that God wills righteously what men do wickedly. Is 55:9KJV
MrDeets, PureX, fishrovmen, AMR

7. Although He does not have to, God takes full responsibility for vanquishing evil and comforting suffering in His perfect timing. Matt 25:41KJV Matt 5:4KJV Rev 21:4KJV
George Affleck, AMR

8. Our present "knowledge of good and evil" and the difference between them is what we would expect if the Genesis account is true. Because God is good we are given a standard by which evil can be recognized and condemned. 1 Cor 14:33KJV

9. A knowledge of the languages God chose for revelation reveals that "good" (tov) carries the meaning of functionally created which has a latent potential for interference, if God allows, labelled "evil" (ra'a). These concepts are not individually subjective or personally determined in our modern sense and we are not entitled to criticism by reason of our created existence.
PPS

10. Suffering via evil is an invitation to believers to participate in God's work. It is a proving ground for believers and haters of evil. Jas 2:20KJV
Eric h, George Affleck, 6days

11. Automation provides no option. One cannot truly and freely choose to love God without an option. A love that is commanded is not love. God desires fellowship with His created beings and has repaired the problem that prevented it by grace through faith. Mat 23:37KJV 1 John 4:10KJV
Jamie Gigliotti, fzappa13

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

Bump:

Well, seeing as have Christmas behind us, are there any new things we can add to the list we have here about good and evil? Or should we consolidate some of them?

So far we have this:

1. Discriminatory judgements from ignorance cannot be compared to God's perfect discernment regarding skin colour or prayer importance. It is He alone who looks on the heart. Jer 17:10KJV
fishrovmen

2. What is considered suffering in this world is a blink of an eye in comparison to eternity after death. Rom 8:18KJV 1Cor 2:9KJV
patrick jane, glorydaz

3. What logic compels a person to conclude there is no God because some do not worship Him properly? God knows this already. Mat 23:27KJV Ps 51:6KJV
fishrovmen, George Affleck

4. Affliction and hardship is the natural outworking of a broken world and verification that sin is dynamic, real and has permeated every facet of creation. Rom 8:22KJV
6days, George Affleck

5. How much evil/suffering or prayers of "minutia" would need to be eliminated for this question to never be asked? If evil/suffering were completely eliminated and all was good, who would seek God? A faith unable to be tried is no faith at all. 2Ch 33:12KJV Ps 50:15KJV
fishrovmen, George Affleck, fzappa13

6. Although we can learn much, the full answer to why evil/suffering is in the world is wrapped up in the infinite wisdom of God and cannot be fully comprehended or appreciated. It is sufficient to say that God wills righteously what men do wickedly. Is 55:9KJV
MrDeets, PureX, fishrovmen, AMR

7. Although He does not have to, God takes full responsibility for vanquishing evil and comforting suffering in His perfect timing. Matt 25:41KJV Matt 5:4KJV Rev 21:4KJV
George Affleck, AMR

8. Our present "knowledge of good and evil" and the difference between them is what we would expect if the Genesis account is true. Because God is good we are given a standard by which evil can be recognized and condemned. 1 Cor 14:33KJV

9. A knowledge of the languages God chose for revelation reveals that "good" (tov) carries the meaning of functionally created which has a latent potential for interference, if God allows, labelled "evil" (ra'a). These concepts are not individually subjective or personally determined in our modern sense and we are not entitled to criticism by reason of our created existence.
PPS

10. Suffering via evil is an invitation to believers to participate in God's work. It is a proving ground for believers and haters of evil. Jas 2:20KJV
Eric h, George Affleck, 6days

11. Automation provides no option. One cannot truly and freely choose to love God without an option. A love that is commanded is not love. God desires fellowship with His created beings and has repaired the problem that prevented it by grace through faith. Mat 23:37KJV 1 John 4:10KJV
Jamie Gigliotti, fzappa13

Tov ("good") and ra'a ("evil") are "function" and "dysfunction". The tree of the knowledge (da'ath) of tov and ra'a is knowledge from physical senses.

Ponerology is mistaught, much like most everything else. Ra'a is the onset of dysfunction from sin (hamartia, the noun). Such potentiality for dysfunction was within the functionality, coming from/by negation/privation OF functionality.

 

[George Affleck]

Tov ("good") and ra'a ("evil") are "function" and "dysfunction". The tree of the knowledge (da'ath) of tov and ra'a is knowledge from physical senses.

Ponerology is mistaught, much like most everything else. Ra'a is the onset of dysfunction from sin (hamartia, the noun). Such potentiality for dysfunction was within the functionality, coming from/by negation/privation OF functionality.

PPS - always nice to know you are around. Your input is invaluable.

How do you understand the difference between the types or qualities of knowledge pre/post fall based on that linguistic information? Should we say that knowledge from the physical senses was interfered with?

 

[fzappa13]

But I agree with you. I wasn't trying to "correct" you or make you "wrong."

I like to share my own thoughts, feelings and beliefs.

How can I do that without your feeling ignored or put down? You get those feelings from the way I communicate and I want to change those ways I use if they do not do what I hope they will do.

I wouldn't be overly concerned if I were you. I've studied the Bible more than most and I did so without "supervision". Needless to say, as a result, I see what it says in a little different light than your average doctrinal acolyte. As a result I often try and throw hints out there as to what I have seen that are, as often as not, ineffective. The tale of the "'scape goat" is a case in point.

Western culture has completely flipped the meaning of this term. The "scape goat" is the one that escapes whereas his partner meets a much less pleasant fate. As with all biblical ordinances, this too has prophetic significance that escapes most (pun intended). In my opinion these two goats are prophetic signposts that foretell the events spoken of in Rev 12.

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

PPS - always nice to know you are around. Your input is invaluable.

How do you understand the difference between the types or qualities of knowledge pre/post fall based on that linguistic information? Should we say that knowledge from the physical senses was interfered with?

Prior to the Edenic encounter with the serpent, there was constant external communion with the Father by the Holy Spirit. In Greek terms, this is oida, which is spiritual intuitive knowledge.

Since death (thanatos) is overarchingly "the cessation of communion with environment of origin"; then spiritual death and physical death are distinct. Spiritual life is constant communion with God. That was abrogated as Eve began communing with the serpent and there was hearing of another Word (Rhema) for another faith.

This spiritual death inevitably and immediately resulted in sin (the noun). Hamartia (sin) is from a- (no/not) and -meros (share/part). As a noun, hamartia is the missing share or part of God's standard as righteousness for both character (inner) and conduct (outer).

With the onset of spiritual death (thanatos is NEVER annihilation or eradication or extinction), God's righteousness could no longer be communed to man by external means, the result of which was all character and conduct being contrary to God's righteousness.

The fruit was from the tree of PHYSICAL SENSES knowledge, making human thought and will subject to the outer interaction with the created realm rather than the inner interaction at the inner man level.

The outer man, via the flesh and its senses, became the superordinate functionality for man and subordinating the spiritual. Man's constitution was functionally inverted from inside-out knowledge to outside-in knowledge. The origin of the body (the dust of the cosmos) became preeminent over the Spirit of God as the means of all experience and intuition.

The "wrong" tree had fruit with was tov (good/functional), but is NOT the tree of life and is NOT by internal spiritual knowledge via God's Spirit in constant communion.

This separation and dysfunctionalizing can only be restored by the individial human spirit being resurrected from within. This was the redemptive purpose of the Son becoming flesh, taking upon Himself the schema (outer form) of a servant and humanity in His nature (physis) to be the last Adam, a quickening spirit in the resurrection and ascension as the first-born from the dead and of many brethren.

That resurrection for us was ministered beginning at Pentecost. The ontology of the Believer comes from reckoning the old outer man crucified with Christ and dead by faith, with the inner man translated into Christ. Having put on Christ (His prosopon) and putting off the old man (our prosopon), the Believer's hypostasis (underlying sub-standing reality and existence) is seated in heavenly places in Christ Jesus, as we live and move and have our being in Him.

This resurrection restored spiritual life and abrogates the spiritual death into which all of mankind is born and consequently sin (the noun) is the condition (in both the nature and the members of the body, the latter of which commits sin as a verb).

Gnosis (knowledge) is experiential knowledge. Oida (knowledge) is spiritual intuitive knowledge. The latter is not truly again interactively functional until being born from above by the Spirit and one's hypostatic union with the Son.

The mind/will faculties are within the nature (physis) of the being (ousia). The emotion/desire faculties are within the body (soma) and its physical systems. The functionalities of mind/will and emotion/desire are conjoined to the hypostasis. In this manner, sin (the noun) is the condition and function from both our nature (physis) and the members of our body (soma).

Unless we are resurrected from within and born from above to be hypostatically translated into Christ, we can never have spiritual life again.

It is the physical senses knowledge that drives our old man to maintain its preeminence and superordinance of function and dysfunction rather than eating of the tree of life. And the tov of the wrong tree is mistaken as functionality because it IS functional. This is the false "good" of physical sense knowledge, including calculating and measuring to presume to know all things by sensory perceptions.

Modern Empiricism and Scientism have emerged in modernity to displace intuitive knowledge of the Spirit within man as the primary functionality. It's tov ("good"), but from the wrong tree. It's supposed to be the subordinate knowledge and functionality, but it became superordinate and preeminent at the Edenic encounter with the lie and the Father of it.

And the church-at-large is too busy putting new wine (the Holy Spirit) in the old wineskins (the old man) to even notice they've burst from doing so, and contain no real substance.

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

Prior to the Edenic encounter with the serpent, there was constant external communion with the Father by the Holy Spirit.

This is a false premise, niether Adam nor Eve had constant communion with the Holy Spirit.

Holy men of old prophesied as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.

2 Peter 1:21
For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

We know Adam prophesied, and did it before the encounter with the serpent.

Genesis 2:24
Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

So we know Adam was a prophet as Christ confirmed.

Luke 1:70
As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:


What you are trying to claim is that Adam had something that none of the other prophets had.

That is the ability to intuit the time and the manner of time the words of the prophecy signified.

Adam didn't know anymore than the rest, his mind also had to search.

1 Peter 1:11
Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

In Greek terms, this is oida, which is spiritual intuitive knowledge.

No, oida is what man, the first Adam, can imagine.

The first Adam was made earthy, subject to vanity, not heavenly.

Since death (thanatos) is overarchingly "the cessation of communion with environment of origin";

Adam's environment of origin was the earth.

When did Adam ever stop communing with it?

then spiritual death and physical death are distinct.

You have yet to prove Adam had spiritual life which by the way is eternal life.

If Adam had not yet eaten from the tree of eternal life how did he die an eternal death?

Spiritual life is constant communion with God.

Constant communion with God is not the ability to imagine what it is.

That was abrogated as Eve began communing with the serpent and there was hearing of another Word (Rhema) for another faith.

We definitely see Eve's oida at play here.

Imagining the fruit could make her wise.

This spiritual death inevitably and immediately resulted in sin (the noun). Hamartia (sin) is from a- (no/not) and -meros (share/part). As a noun, hamartia is the missing share or part of God's standard as righteousness for both character (inner) and conduct (outer).

Adam believed that what God said would come to pass.

His ability to act righteously upon this belief was missing.

A missing ability is in no wise a noun in any language.

With the onset of spiritual death (thanatos is NEVER annihilation or eradication or extinction), God's righteousness could no longer be communed to man by external means, the result of which was all character and conduct being contrary to God's righteousness.

The son of God walked and talked with him from outside his body.

Your idea of external is inverted from your opening post onward.

The fruit was from the tree of PHYSICAL SENSES knowledge, making human thought and will subject to the outer interaction with the created realm rather than the inner interaction at the inner man level.

No, the very act of eating the fruit shows that Adam's soul and spirit were already subject to the senses of his body's interaction with the external world around him.

The outer man, via the flesh and its senses, became the superordinate functionality for man and subordinating the spiritual. Man's constitution was functionally inverted from inside-out knowledge to outside-in knowledge.

Once again, this was the state of Adam from the beginning.

The origin of the body (the dust of the cosmos) became preeminent over the Spirit of God as the means of all experience and intuition.

No, God subjected Adam to his body when he made him.

The "wrong" tree had fruit with was tov (good/functional), but is NOT the tree of life and is NOT by internal spiritual knowledge via God's Spirit in constant communion.

I'll buy that.

This separation and dysfunctionalizing can only be restored by the individial human spirit being resurrected from within. This was the redemptive purpose of the Son becoming flesh, taking upon Himself the schema (outer form) of a servant and humanity in His nature (physis) to be the last Adam, a quickening spirit in the resurrection and ascension as the first-born from the dead and of many brethren.

Nope, this is speculation from your false opening statement.

That resurrection for us was ministered beginning at Pentecost. The ontology of the Believer comes from reckoning the old outer man crucified with Christ and dead by faith, with the inner man translated into Christ. Having put on Christ (His prosopon) and putting off the old man (our prosopon), the Believer's hypostasis (underlying sub-standing reality and existence) is seated in heavenly places in Christ Jesus, as we live and move and have our being in Him.

No, what happened to the Apostles and those they preached to was an example of the operation of God that happens in every believer.

We do not live and move and have our being in Christ.

All of us including Christ live and move and have our being in God.

The idolatrous Athenians were told that they were the offspring of God before believing in Christ.

This resurrection restored spiritual life and abrogates the spiritual death into which all of mankind is born and consequently sin (the noun) is the condition (in both the nature and the members of the body, the latter of which commits sin as a verb).

Here you have the invisible nature as a noun.

I know you hate English but this is taking it a bit far, dontcha think?

Gnosis (knowledge) is experiential knowledge. Oida (knowledge) is spiritual intuitive knowledge. The latter is not truly again interactively functional until being born from above by the Spirit and one's hypostatic union with the Son.

There is no again being interactively functional.

Adam spoke as he was moved by the Holy Spirit, not had a lucky guess intuited out of his imagination.

The mind/will faculties are within the nature (physis) of the being (ousia). The emotion/desire faculties are within the body (soma) and its physical systems. The functionalities of mind/will and emotion/desire are conjoined to the hypostasis. In this manner, sin (the noun) is the condition and function from both our nature (physis) and the members of our body (soma).

Sorry, but that's not how the spirit, soul and body interact.

Unless we are resurrected from within and born from above to be hypostatically translated into Christ, we can never have spiritual life again.

There is no again.

It is the physical senses knowledge that drives our old man to maintain its preeminence and superordinance of function and dysfunction rather than eating of the tree of life. And the tov of the wrong tree is mistaken as functionality because it IS functional. This is the false "good" of physical sense knowledge, including calculating and measuring to presume to know all things by sensory perceptions.

Welcome to a little understanding of the first Adam.

Modern Empiricism and Scientism have emerged in modernity to displace intuitive knowledge of the Spirit within man as the primary functionality. It's tov ("good"), but from the wrong tree. It's supposed to be the subordinate knowledge and functionality, but it became superordinate and preeminent at the Edenic encounter with the lie and the Father of it.

Nope, the imagination of man is alive and thriving in those areas.

And the church-at-large is too busy putting new wine (the Holy Spirit) in the old wineskins (the old man) to even notice they've burst from doing so, and contain no real substance.

No, it is impossible for man to put the Holy Spirit anywhere.

However man generally thinks he has more of it than he does.

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

This is a false premise, niether Adam nor Eve had constant communion with the Holy Spirit.

Holy men of old prophesied as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.

2 Peter 1:21
For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

We know Adam prophesied, and did it before the encounter with the serpent.

Genesis 2:24
Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

So we know Adam was a prophet as Christ confirmed.

Luke 1:70
As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:


What you are trying to claim is that Adam had something that none of the other prophets had.

That is the ability to intuit the time and the manner of time the words of the prophecy signified.

Adam didn't know anymore than the rest, his mind also had to search.

1 Peter 1:11
Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

No, oida is what man, the first Adam, can imagine.

The first Adam was made earthy, subject to vanity, not heavenly.

Adam's environment of origin was the earth.

When did Adam ever stop communing with it?

You have yet to prove Adam had spiritual life which by the way is eternal life.

If Adam had not yet eaten from the tree of eternal life how did he die an eternal death?

Constant communion with God is not the ability to imagine what it is.

We definitely see Eve's oida at play here.

Imagining the fruit could make her wise.

Adam believed that what God said would come to pass.

His ability to act righteously upon this belief was missing.

A missing ability is in no wise a noun in any language.

The son of God walked and talked with him from outside his body.

Your idea of external is inverted from your opening post onward.

No, the very act of eating the fruit shows that Adam's soul and spirit were already subject to the senses of his body's interaction with the external world around him.

Once again, this was the state of Adam from the beginning.

No, God subjected Adam to his body when he made him.

I'll buy that.

Nope, this is speculation from your false opening statement.

No, what happened to the Apostles and those they preached to was an example of the operation of God that happens in every believer.

We do not live and move and have our being in Christ.

All of us including Christ live and move and have our being in God.

The idolatrous Athenians were told that they were the offspring of God before believing in Christ.

Here you have the invisible nature as a noun.

I know you hate English but this is taking it a bit far, dontcha think?

There is no again being interactively functional.

Adam spoke as he was moved by the Holy Spirit, not had a lucky guess intuited out of his imagination.

Sorry, but that's not how the spirit, soul and body interact.

There is no again.

Welcome to a little understanding of the first Adam.

Nope, the imagination of man is alive and thriving in those areas.

No, it is impossible for man to put the Holy Spirit anywhere.

However man generally thinks he has more of it than he does.

No. Unfortunately you understand virtually nothing about any part of anything. No valid hermeneutics, exegesis, or lexicography in translation or application.

Seriously. Nothing.

 

[quip]

No. Unfortunately you understand virtually nothing about any part of anything.

Seriously. Nothing.

/thread? :idunno:

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

No valid hermeneutics, exegesis, or lexicography in translation or application.

Seriously. Nothing.

Everybody has to occupy their time somehow while waiting on understanding.

Me, I worked with my hands.

 

[MichaelCadry]

"IF god were real, why would he spend so much time in white America answering the minutia of prayer he receives while leaving so many millions to starve to death or watch their children starve?"

This is a quote from MrDeets blogpost which seems to me to be the essence of a long unanswered difficulty he struggled with. This is a reasonable question and a real issue for many and can be used effectively by Satan if left unanswered.

I encourage all serious, biblical/theological input.

Dear George A,

Hey Buddy!! It's been awhile! I thought I'd post here about this, if I may. America, believe it or not, is a overflowing pot of tons of people with Israeli blood in them, from England, Spain, Italy, Russia, Greece, France, etc. The ten tribes were cast out of Israel and sojourned/traveled very far as time went on, heading west from Israel. Always heading from east to west, which is what Jesus will do when He returns. I don't have any Chinese or Japanese, or Vietnamese blood in me. No German also, that I know of. The different ten tribes probably had blood in them from the tribes of Judah and Benjamin also. By the time they got to England, Ireland, Scotland, France, the horny ten tribes of Israel had intermingled sexually with each other and with every country they migrated to. Maids and husbandmen from other countries having sex and children, with different ancestries. Children over and over with different blood mixtures. And then England sent over three ships of people with tons of blood mixtures in them, including the ten tribes of Israel, and no doubt, a lot of the other countries that I listed. Horny young men and women not caring who had whose blood in them or ancestry, just made babies who were real 'mutts.'

And then they also intermingled with the Indians when they got here. I have part Cherokee in me and all 12 tribes of Israel in me, which I was told, and also English, Irish, Scottish, and Arabic Lebanese on my Dad's side. I'm the weirdest mutt ever. Much of the Israeli blood came from the Great Britain in me. Arab and Israeli blood in one stick. And my Dad, who was Muslim at the time, let my Mom have her way and let me be named Michael instead of Mohamed after my grandfather; and let my Mom raise us kids as Christians instead of Muslim like my Dad. When Dad's relatives (sisters and mother) came pulling up in our driveway unannounced every time, we had to scatter and hide the church bulletins and leaflets, and Bibles fast so they would not see them. This went on for years. But we went to church every Sunday. I also played organ a couple times in church, and I sang in the choir, and was the only one asked to do a solo at Christmastime. Ah, I will keep this short.

America is Israel's melting pot. Like a large nation of many of people who had an assortment of Israeli blood in them intermingled with many other different countries, even Portugal and Germany!! Why do you think we are/'were' such close allies? I'm just saying that we are almost all mutts! Servants and owners having sex in the parlors and sheds, in the fields of tall grass... everywhere. Not caring what blood they had in them. It happened constantly. Let's face it. It happens now just as much. We are so interbred, it is awesome if we only could trace our blood all the way back to Israel. We are a 'mini' Israel that is a 'maxi' Israel mixed with the blood of the nations. Even Scandinavians: Finland, Sweden, Norway, etc.!! The Lord told me that I had all 12 tribes of Israel in my blood mixed rarely with Indian Cherokee blood, and all on my Mom's side. She was born in Kentucky and was a bit of a hillbilly too. But that is not a matter of ancestry. But then, my Dad, being Lebanese. I had Israeli and Arab blood in me. Back then, it could have been a first. I'm figuring that now, a number of Lebanese and Israelis have had sex with each other. Call me wrong?? America is a big melting pot!! A real fondue!! Okay, I've got to get going. It is almost 4am. I'm so tired and have to get some sleep. God's Love To You All {And Mine Too!!}.

Michael

:cloud9: :angel: :angel: :angel: :cloud9:

 

[Clete]

"IF god were real, why would he spend so much time in white America answering the minutia of prayer he receives while leaving so many millions to starve to death or watch their children starve?"

This is a quote from MrDeets blogpost which seems to me to be the essence of a long unanswered difficulty he struggled with. This is a reasonable question and a real issue for many and can be used effectively by Satan if left unanswered.

I encourage all serious, biblical/theological input.

It is the Augustinian (i.e. Catholics and Calvinists) who believe God has predestined everything that have no answer for the problem of evil.

Evil and its consequences is our fault (and Satan's) not God's. The fact is that man is evil and thus the world is hostile and deadly.

God could end it, if He chose to do so and in fact He will do precisely that eventually. In the interim, all of mankind has the opportunity to repent of their sin and turn to God for the salvation of their eternal soul. 10,000 years from now, no one will hardly remember nor want to recall our physical lives, neither how they were lived nor how they ended. Thus God's withheld judgment of this world is a mercy, not a curse.

Romans 8:18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.
​

Resting in Him,
Clete

 

[ttruscott]

It is the Augustinian (i.e. Catholics and Calvinists) who believe God has predestined everything that have no answer for the problem of evil.

Predestination does not destroy the answer to the problem of evil...if we are predestined AFTER our choice to become evil in HIS sight.

IF we all are sinful by our own true free will decision to rebel against HIS deity or HIS plan for us in Sheol before the creation of the world, then our predestined lives here on earth could be in accord with our choices pre-earth and reflect our free will and thus the evil nature we chose then is represented in the world as the evil we do.

 

[Clete]

Predestination does not destroy the answer to the problem of evil...if we are predestined AFTER our choice to become evil in HIS sight.

You can't get all the way through your first sentence with contradicting yourself.

IF we all are sinful by our own true free will decision to rebel against HIS deity or HIS plan for us in Sheol before the creation of the world, then our predestined lives here on earth could be in accord with our choices pre-earth and reflect our free will and thus the evil nature we chose then is represented in the world as the evil we do.

You didn't exist before you existed, Mr. Scott!

And neither Augustinian nor Calvinist doctrine teaches anything similar to what you are suggesting anyway. They teach this...

“The devil, and the whole train of the ungodly, are in all directions, held in by the hand of God as with a bridle, so that they can neither conceive any mischief, nor plan what they have conceived, nor how muchsoever they may have planned, move a single finger to perpetrate, unless in so far as he permits, nay unless in so far as he commands, that they are not only bound by his fetters but are even forced to do him service” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 1, Chapter 17, Paragraph 11)​

And a thousand other similar things that render God the author of everything that happens - including every evil act ever committed or even thought of in the minds of men or devils.

Resting in Him,
Clete

 

[George Affleck]

It is the Augustinian (i.e. Catholics and Calvinists) who believe God has predestined everything that have no answer for the problem of evil.

Evil and its consequences is our fault (and Satan's) not God's. The fact is that man is evil and thus the world is hostile and deadly.

God could end it, if He chose to do so and in fact He will do precisely that eventually. In the interim, all of mankind has the opportunity to repent of their sin and turn to God for the salvation of their eternal soul. 10,000 years from now, no one will hardly remember nor want to recall our physical lives, neither how they were lived nor how they ended. Thus God's withheld judgment of this world is a mercy, not a curse.

Romans 8:18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.
​

Resting in Him,
Clete

How do you understand this verse?

Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? Rom 9:21KJV

 

[Clete]

How do you understand this verse?

Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? Rom 9:21KJV

Romans 9 is Jeremiah 18 applied to the nation of Israel.

 

[fzappa13]

(Thumbs through Bible) Romans 9 ... mmmmm ... Romans 9 ... Romans ... ah, yes. Here we are:


Rom 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

 

[Zeke]

(Thumbs through Bible) Romans 9 ... mmmmm ... Romans 9 ... Romans ... ah, yes. Here we are:


Rom 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

The thoughts of the mind become it's children that reflect their fathers mentality Ephesians 2:1-3 Luke 9:54-55, Romans nine is introverted back in seven as well as Galatians 4:23-28, both show this isn't to be separated from our own conscience if we are using the word in its spiritual intent which is always concerning our own house divided/veiled 2Cor 3:6 the literal letter is that veil that warps the intent when observed as building kingdoms temples with hands Luke 17:20-21.

 

[fzappa13]

The thoughts of the mind become it's children that reflect their fathers mentality Ephesians 2:1-3 Luke 9:54-55, Romans nine is introverted back in seven as well as Galatians 4:23-28, both show this isn't to be separated from our own conscience if we are using the word in its spiritual intent which is always concerning our own house divided/veiled 2Cor 3:6 the literal letter is that veil that warps the intent when observed as building kingdoms temples with hands Luke 17:20-21.

I'm going to have to chew on that one for a while.

 

[George Affleck]

Romans 9 is Jeremiah 18 applied to the nation of Israel.

In that case, which group is Paul referring to as the vessel unto honour and which unto dishonour?