ECT glorydaz says that Romans is Written to Unbelievers

[glorydaz]

Evidently GM has no answers to what I said. Why don't you help him out and answer my points for him? He never expressed anything at all against me until he was unable to answer what I said.

Funny how you think every one is hanging on your every word. That bad GM....he's left your presence.


Now please note, dear readers.....Jerry's MO. He blathers on and on and then claims we aren't able to answer what he says. I hate to be the bearer of bad tidings, Jerry, but you have proven you aren't to be trusted. You do what God's UNtruth does. You twist and distort and falsely accuse. No one likes to talk to a brick wall. I only do it because I keep hoping you aren't as big a fool as you seem.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Funny how you think every one is hanging on your every word. That bad GM....he's left your presence.

Just like you do when you cannot answer the verses which I quote which proves you wrong.

 

[Danoh]

...When I said Romans 10:9-10 was addressing unbelievers, you claimed it was addressing believers and was talking about when we receive our new glorified bodies. You said that, didn't you? Why do you keep trying to avoid admitting that?

Jerry is not actually off in that, and it kind of reminds me of that point in Exodus relating Israel's very physical salvation before its Gentile enemies: Pharaoh and His mighty army.

Where Israel looks physically cut off at the Red Sea - Exodus 14:

13. And Moses said unto the people, Fear ye not, stand still, and see the salvation of the LORD, which he will shew to you to day: for the Egyptians whom ye have seen to day, ye shall see them again no more for ever.
14. The LORD shall fight for you, and ye shall hold your peace.

Compare that to this - Luke 19:

41. And when he was come near, he beheld the city, and wept over it,
42. Saying, If thou hadst known, even thou, at least in this thy day, the things which belong unto thy peace! but now they are hid from thine eyes.
43. For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side,
44. And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation.

In this, Jerry was right about an aspect of Romans 10 not often considered, but applied its principle as to Israel's physical salvation as if it were what Romans 8 is asserting.

Of course, he may now deny that, though there it is on that thread where he did just that.

Anyway, one aspect of the Apostle Paul's profound sense of grief as to the Israel of his generation is their having forfeited their peace - their physical deliverance from their coming destruction at the hands of their enemies because God, in His wrath for their blasphemy, has turned from them:

1 Thessalonians 2:

15. Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men:
16. Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost.

In this, the Apostle Pauls' is a profound sense of grief and depression over his beloved nation that he has only the truth of Israel's yet glorious future to comfort him by - Romans 11:25-36.

Still, allow that to sink in a moment. Actually pause for a moment to imagine that many of your people will soon be physically wiped out because God has given them over to their own destruction in His wrath. How would you feel?

Jerry had a point as to this physical salvation peculiar to... God's peculiar people - but boy did he screw it up, for his same old attempt to draw glory to himself by twisting that into some other argument he is determined to shove down the throat of anyone who so much as says "hi," to him... to their everlasting regret..

You need to suffer this infirmity in the flesh of yours; you need to suffer with Christ in it, Jerry; not lord it over others.

For your are both negatively, and severely, impacting your reigning with Him.

 

[glorydaz]

The one opening it... will be Jerry... and the one forcing how it is to be received down the throats of its actually intended recipients will be... Jerry.

And what's that you imply - there is a little Jerry waiting in the wings!

Heavens to Betsy!

Hopefully there is another adult in the house. :sibbie:

 

[glorydaz]

Just like you do when you cannot answer the verses which I quote which proves you wrong.

I'm here.

I haven't seen any such verses.

 

[john w]

Just like you do when you cannot answer the verses which I quote which proves you wrong.

Spam, which you send to almost everyone.

 

[glorydaz]

Jerry is not actually off in that, and it kind of reminds me of that point in Exodus relating Israel's very physical salvation before its Gentile enemies: Pharaoh and His mighty army.

Where Israel looks physically cut off at the Red Sea - Exodus 14:

13. And Moses said unto the people, Fear ye not, stand still, and see the salvation of the LORD, which he will shew to you to day: for the Egyptians whom ye have seen to day, ye shall see them again no more for ever.
14. The LORD shall fight for you, and ye shall hold your peace.

Compare that to this - Luke 19:

41. And when he was come near, he beheld the city, and wept over it,
42. Saying, If thou hadst known, even thou, at least in this thy day, the things which belong unto thy peace! but now they are hid from thine eyes.
43. For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side,
44. And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation.

In this, Jerry was right about an aspect of Romans 10 not often considered, but applied its principle as to Israel's physical salvation as if it were what Romans 8 is asserting.

Of course, he may now deny that, though there it is on that thread where he did just that.

Anyway, one aspect of the Apostle Paul's profound sense of grief as to the Israel of his generation is their having forfeited their peace - their physical deliverance from their coming destruction at the hands of their enemies because God, in His wrath for their blasphemy, has turned from them:

1 Thessalonians 2:

15. Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men:
16. Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost.

In this, the Apostle Pauls' is a profound sense of grief and depression over his beloved nation that he has only the truth of Israel's yet glorious future to comfort him by - Romans 11:25-36.

Still, allow that to sink in a moment. Actually pause for a moment to imagine that many of your people will soon be physically wiped out because God has given them over to their own destruction in His wrath. How would you feel?

Jerry had a point as to this physical salvation peculiar to... God's peculiar people - but boy did he screw it up, for his same old attempt to draw glory to himself by twisting that into some other argument he is determined to shove down the throat of anyone who so much as says "hi," to him... to their everlasting regret..

You need to suffer this infirmity in the flesh of yours; you need to suffer with Christ in it, Jerry; not lord it over others.

For your are both negatively, and severely, impacting your reigning with Him.

You make some good points...worth discussing, but I think you're being way too generous when you suggest Jerry meant such as concerning those verses. Believing unto righteousness is a pretty big clue if you ask me. Romans 10:9-13 He insisted those verses were addressed to believers and their receiving their glorified bodies.

 

[StanJ]

I do not take orders from john weenie!

I think he has a 'Napoleonic Complex'.

 

[john w]

I do not take orders from john weenie!

Apologize, Jerry "I am always right" Spam. End the thread.

And your "weenie" stumper does not phase me, as I've fought bigger girls than you before.

 

[Danoh]

You make some good points...worth discussing, but I think you're being way too generous when you suggest Jerry meant such as concerning those verses. Believing unto righteousness is a pretty big clue if you ask me. Romans 10:9-13 He insisted those verses were addressed to believers and their receiving their glorified bodies.

Too late, he will seize on it, lol

 

[StanJ]

If it is addressed to unbelievers then why did Paul not mention them when he said exactly who he was addressing?:

"to all that are in Rome, beloved of God, called saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and [our] Lord Jesus Christ. First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is proclaimed in the whole world" (Ro.1:7-8).
​

We can know that the word "all" in verse seven is referring to the "all" in verse eight, and that means only those with faith are being addressed:

"I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is proclaimed in the whole world."
​

You talk big but you have never been able to prove that your accusation is true. Just because you say it means nothing.

Jerry I've already refuted this version you continually refer to. It is erroneously rendered, and I've shown you the more accurate English versions. As long as you use your preferred Darby version you will NEVER see the truth of scripture.

The proof is in how most take it Jerry, not how YOU take it. If we were in a moderated debate you would have lost a long time ago and NOT be able to continually repeat your fallacious assertions.
It's fairly straight forward really.

If they were ONLY believers, why does Paul say what he says in v14-15?

I am obligated both to Greeks and non-Greeks, both to the wise and the foolish. That is why I am so eager to preach the gospel also to you who are in Rome.
​

Why on earth would Paul want to preach the gospel to them if they were all BELIEVERS?

 

[glorydaz]

Apologize, Jerry "I am always right" Spam. End the thread.

And your "weenie" stumper does not phase me, as I've fought bigger girls than you before.

But, according to Jerry he doesn't call people names.

Maybe someone else sneaked in and posted on his computer? :dizzy:

 

[glorydaz]

Jerry I've already refuted this version you continually refer to. It is erroneously rendered, and I've shown you the more accurate English versions. As long as you use your preferred Darby version you will NEVER see the truth of scripture.

The proof is in how most take it Jerry, not how YOU take it. If we were in a moderated debate you would have lost a long time ago and NOT be able to continually repeat your fallacious assertions.
It's fairly straight forward really.

If they were ONLY believers, why does Paul say what he says in v14-15?

I am obligated both to Greeks and non-Greeks, both to the wise and the foolish. That is why I am so eager to preach the gospel also to you who are in Rome.
​

Why on earth would Paul want to preach the gospel to them if they were all BELIEVERS?

opcorn:

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Jerry I've already refuted this version you continually refer to.

How about the NIV, a translation which you use sometimes:

If the epistle to the Romans is addressed to unbelievers then why did Paul not mention them when he said exactly whom he was addressing?:

"To all in Rome who are loved by God and called to be his holy people: Grace and peace to you from God our Father and from the Lord Jesus Christ. First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for all of you, because your faith is being reported all over the world [/B]" (Ro.1:7-8; NIV).​

We can know that the word "all" in verse seven is referring to the "all" in verse eight, and that means only those with faith are being addressed:

"I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is proclaimed in the whole world."​

If they were ONLY believers, why does Paul say what he says in v14-15?

I am obligated both to Greeks and non-Greeks, both to the wise and the foolish. That is why I am so eager to preach the gospel also to you who are in Rome.

Why on earth would Paul want to preach the gospel to them if they were all BELIEVERS?

The primary meaning of the Greek word translated "preached the gospel" at Romans 1:15 is "to bring good news, to announce glad tidings" (Thayer's Greek English Lexicon).

That is why we see this translation:

"so, as much as in me is, I am ready also to you who are in Rome to proclaim good news" (Ro.1:15; YLT).​

There is more than one instance of good news that was preached to believers so there is absolutely no evidence that Paul is speaking about preaching the gospel to unbelievers. Again, If the epistle to the Romans is addressed to unbelievers then why did Paul not mention them when he said exactly who he was addressing?:

"To all in Rome who are loved by God and called to be his holy people: Grace and peace to you from God our Father and from the Lord Jesus Christ. First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for all of you, because your faith is being reported all over the world [/B]" (Ro.1:7-8; NIV).​

We can know that the word "all" in verse seven is referring to the "all" in verse eight, and that means only those with faith are being addressed.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

I think he has a 'Napoleonic Complex'.

Of course I do since I'm six feet four inches tall.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

But, according to Jerry he doesn't call people names.

Maybe someone else sneaked in and posted on his computer?

Are you sure that john's last name isn't weenie?

He sure looks like a weenie to me.

 

[StanJ]

How about the NIV, a translation which you use sometimes:

If the epistle to the Romans is addressed to unbelievers then why did Paul not mention them when he said exactly whom he was addressing?:

"To all in Rome who are loved by God and called to be his holy people: Grace and peace to you from God our Father and from the Lord Jesus Christ. First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for all of you, because your faith is being reported all over the world [/B]" (Ro.1:7-8; NIV).
​

We can know that the word "all" in verse seven is referring to the "all" in verse eight, and that means only those with faith are being addressed:

"I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is proclaimed in the whole world."
​

The primary meaning of the Greek word translated "preached the gospel" at Romans 1:15 is "to bring good news, to announce glad tidings" (Thayer's Greek English Lexicon).

That is why we see this translation:

"so, as much as in me is, I am ready also to you who are in Rome to proclaim good news" (Ro.1:15; YLT).
​

There is more than one instance of good news that was preached to believers so there is absolutely no evidence that Paul is speaking about preaching the gospel to unbelievers. Again, If the epistle to the Romans is addressed to unbelievers then why did Paul not mention them when he said exactly who he was addressing?:

"To all in Rome who are loved by God and called to be his holy people: Grace and peace to you from God our Father and from the Lord Jesus Christ. First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for all of you, because your faith is being reported all over the world [/B]" (Ro.1:7-8; NIV).
​

We can know that the word "all" in verse seven is referring to the "all" in verse eight, and that means only those with faith are being addressed.

As soon as you answer my questions from my last post I'll pursue this.

Funny how you accept the YLT now but not when I brought it up before regarding LAND vs EARTH?

 

[StanJ]

Of course I do since I'm six feet four inches tall.

Not paying attention again are you Jerry?

 

[glorydaz]

Are you sure that john's last name isn't weenie?

He sure looks like a weenie to me.

I'm a grandmother and resent being asked such a question on a Christian forum. Know this....I will not be bullied into joining you in your schoolyard attempt at humor.

 

[rougueone]

Yes, but that does not mean that the epistle was addressed to both believers and unbelievers.

Are we splitting hair's ? And missing the objective of the scripture...

The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; 9That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. 12For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.