Genesis REVISITED

[philosophizer]

Don't let Turbo fool you. He's really the Joker. There are pictures that prove it.

 

[Batman]

New and Improved

New and Improved

Goodbye old costume, hello new! Now I should get some respect.

Why do I feel so feminine? Oh wait . . . nooooooo!

 

[billwald]

"Batman, have you ever heard the case that Job was actually written before Genesis?"

One theory is that Genesis was written during the Babalonian captivity. See Donald Akenson and others.

 

[Turbo]

Originally posted by philosophizer

Don't let Turbo fool you. He's really the Joker. There are pictures that prove it.

:chuckle: ...one of the best incentives to subscribe to TOL.


(Or visit the avatar graveyard.)

 

[Turbo]

Originally posted by billwald

One theory is that Genesis was written during the Babalonian captivity. See Donald Akenson and others.

No thanks. Jesus credited Moses as the author of Genesis.

• Then He said to them, [jesus]"These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things must be fulfilled which were written in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me." [/jesus]Luke 24:44
  
  [jesus]"But concerning the dead, that they rise, have you not read in the book of Moses, in the burning bush passage, how God spoke to him, saying, 'I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob'?" [/jesus]Mark 12:26 (also Luke 20:37)*
  
  [jesus]"Moses therefore gave you circumcision (not that it is from Moses, but from the fathers), and you circumcise a man on the Sabbath." [/jesus] John 7:22

*(edit: that was a reference to Moses writing Exodus, not Genesis. I was in a hurry when I posted and mistook the reference to Abraham et al. Added Luke 24:44 to the list.)

 

[Zakath]

Originally posted by Turbo

No thanks. Jesus credited Moses as the author of Genesis.

• [jesus]"But concerning the dead, that they rise, have you not read in the book of Moses, in the burning bush passage, how God spoke to him, saying, 'I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob'?" [/jesus]Mark 12:26 (also Luke 20:37)

• The Jews traditionally refer to the Pentateuch as the "books of Moses", even though many of them do not believe he actually wrote them, it's merely their tradition.
  
  

  [jesus]"Moses therefore gave you circumcision (not that it is from Moses, but from the fathers), and you circumcise a man on the Sabbath." [/jesus] John 7:22

But doesn't that parenthetical comment indicate that Jesus did not consider Moses the author of the texts relevant to circumcision, but "the fathers" (aka "the patriarchs")?

 

[Turbo]

Originally posted by Zakath

The Jews traditionally refer to the Pentateuch as the "books of Moses", even though many of them do not believe he actually wrote them, it's merely their tradition.

If Jesus is who he claimed, he would know for certain.

But doesn't that parenthetical comment indicate that Jesus did not consider Moses the author of the texts relevant to circumcision, but "the fathers" (aka "the patriarchs")?

No. Circumcision was given to Abraham, but Moses recorded the story in Genesis.

 

[Zakath]

Originally posted by Turbo

If Jesus is who he claimed, he would know for certain.

That's a pretty big "if" from where I sit.

No. Circumcision was given to Abraham, but Moses recorded the story in Genesis.

And Abraham gave it to his descendents, not Moses. Circumcision was commonly practiced by the Jews before Moses would have written anything. He did not give the Jews circumcision. If Jesus was who you think he claimed to be, he would have known that for certain.

 

[One Eyed Jack]

Originally posted by Frank Ernest
As a literal reading, I would find it difficult to figure that eating a piece of fruit would make one wise, or become as gods, or know good from evil.

I think this is a common misunderstanding. The fruit didn't have any particular properties for unlocking wisdom or anything like that. There was just one rule in the Garden -- don't eat from that tree. It could just as well have been another rule, like don't pick up a certain rock or something. They didn't gain the knowledge of good and evil because they ate the fruit -- they gained the knowledge of good and evil because they disobeyed God.

 

[Turbo]

Originally posted by Zakath

That's a pretty big "if" from where I sit.

That's your problem, both because of which forum this thread is in and in the larger scheme of things.

And Abraham gave it to his descendents, not Moses. Circumcision was commonly practiced by the Jews before Moses would have written anything. He did not give the Jews circumcision.

I know. That's why I said, "Circumcision was given to Abraham, but Moses recorded the story in Genesis."

If Jesus was who you think he claimed to be, he would have known that for certain.

He did. That's why he said, "Moses therefore gave you circumcision (not that it is from Moses, but from the fathers), and you circumcise a man on the Sabbath."

 

[Cool-Icy]

Originally posted by Frank Ernest

Cool-Icy:
"The imagery of a snake has symbolic meaning..."

FrankiE:
That it does. Mind telling me what the symbol stands for?

Remember what Jesus said about Satan, that he saw him falling from heaven like lightning?

Cool-Icy:
The forbidden Fruit is symbolism of the first sin. That Fruit of Tree and Knowledge, the definition of sin is rebellion against God.

FrankiE:
And that sin was?

Read my sentence carefully!

[Bold]"Sin" is "Rebellion against GOD"![/BOLD]

Cool-Icy:
"Hence the Fruit, is all about wanting to be God, which is why we try to rebel against God."

FrankiE:
And the fruit is symbolic of ...?

The thing that we all want to be God, so that we can make our own decisions, rather than let God make them for us!

 

[Lucky]

Originally posted by philosophizer

It looks really funny in this post, with you new avatar, when you say "Batman is right." :chuckle:

Originally posted by Batman

I'm the real Batman!

Or are you? :think:

 

[OMEGA]

sore

sore

De - Batemen are having a Debate

------------------------------------------------


Abraham just told his household and boy were they sore.

God told Moses to tell the Hebrews who were chosen

by the Lord God to be His People and they were sore at both

God and Moses.
:thumb:

 

[Frank Ernest]

philosophizer:
"Did your parents ever say they had sex to conceive you? If they didn't would it be any less likely? "

FrankiE:
No, they didn't. They didn't say so about my brother either. Why, in Genesis, is Cain's conception specifically mentioned while Abel's is not?

 

[Frank Ernest]

Cool-Icy:
"The thing that we all want to be God, so that we can make our own decisions, rather than let God make them for us! "

FrankiE:
Really? Where does it say that?

 

[Frank Ernest]

Cool-Icy:
"Sin" is "Rebellion against GOD"!

FrankiE:
Could you be more specific?

Cool-Icy:
"Remember what Jesus said about Satan, that he saw him falling from heaven like lightning?"

FrankiE:
I fail to see what that has to do with the imagery surrounding a serpent.

 

[Frank Ernest]

OEJ:
"I think this is a common misunderstanding. The fruit didn't have any particular properties for unlocking wisdom or anything like that. There was just one rule in the Garden -- don't eat from that tree. It could just as well have been another rule, like don't pick up a certain rock or something. They didn't gain the knowledge of good and evil because they ate the fruit -- they gained the knowledge of good and evil because they disobeyed God. "

FrankiE:
Genesis 3:13-14. Please explain the word "beguiled" in verse 13.

Beguiled (English) from nâshâ' (Hebrew)
naw-shaw'
A primitive root; to lead astray, that is, (mentally) to delude, or (morally) to seduce: - beguile, deceive, X greatly, X utterly.

Do you have other examples from the Bible where God punished people for eating the wrong fruit or picking up the wrong stone?

 

[Turbo]

Re: sore

Re: sore

Originally posted by OMEGA

De - Batemen are having a Debate

------------------------------------------------


Abraham just told his household and boy were they sore.

God told Moses to tell the Hebrews who were chosen

by the Lord God to be His People and they were sore at both

God and Moses.
:thumb:

These two groups, Abraham's household and the Hebrews, are one in the same.

 

[Turbo]

Originally posted by Frank Ernest

Why, in Genesis, is Cain's conception specifically mentioned while Abel's is not?

Maybe because Cain's was the first conception ever. Or maybe it was to make it easy to debunk false teachers who would someday claim that Cain was Satan's son and not Adam's.

I'm going to ask you again, Frank:
Where do you think Abel came from?

 

[Turbo]

Originally posted by Frank Ernest

FrankiE:
Genesis 3:13-14. Please explain the word "beguiled" in verse 13.

Beguiled (English) from nâshâ' (Hebrew)
naw-shaw'
A primitive root; to lead astray, that is, (mentally) to delude, or (morally) to seduce: - beguile, deceive, X greatly, X utterly.

You answered your own question. Even if that word were translated as "seduced," it wouldn't mean that he sexually seduced her, because of the context in which the word is used. :duh: He seduced her into rebelling against God's command not to eat from that tree.

Do you think that when God commanded Adam not to eat from the Tree of Death that He was really commanding Adam not to have sex with Lucifer? :hammer:

Do you have other examples from the Bible where God punished people for eating the wrong fruit

God forbade the Israelites from eating unclean animals.

or picking up the wrong stone?

God forbade the Isrealites from working on the Sabbath.