General Sports Thread

[Town Heretic]

Uh, yeah. Spare me. We both know better.

No, we don't. What you're doing and have been is wrong headed. I noted a one point loss where his rating at the position was exceptional. It happens. And Brady's seven close playoff wins weren't the end game of exceptional play. One of his stinker games, a three pick game, ended in a win.

So you going to point to that and say we both know it was his win? Of course not. Same thing in reverse, which is why team wins/losses is useless.

End of the day, the buck stops somewhere.

Sure, the coach and GM who put teams together and prepare them. Players play their position.

End of the day, it's at the very least the accepted short hand: "His record" is handy and largely accurate given the nature of the position.

Except it isn't, which is why Archie Manning is widely regarded and Trent Dilfer isn't in the Hall.

We would have to go player by player and schedule for schedule to get any kind of sense how accurate the comparison is.

Look, if you want to say the Pats play in a weaker division and that it impacted the bottom line on team performance then you're also saying Tom's stats are weaker and they're already below Peyton's. Okay.

At this point you're just splitting hairs.

No, I'm distinguishing between getting a C- on an exam and getting an F. A near 70 rating is below average. A 30 or 40 or even 50s rating is embarrassingly poor.

On that I completely disagree. Snow seems to be Peyton's kryptonite.

Four games. Too low a sample. You're comparing him to Tom, who lives in the stuff and was playing games at home. And those rough weather games for Tom didn't see him lighting up the board either. He had a GREAT foul weather kicker.

He didn't grow up with it, see it much (if at all) in college, and it's not an environment in which he thrives.

It's home field. He plays in it and in that weather. It's a decided advantage and a broad sampling. College? Growing up? Doesn't factor.

In cold weather postseason Manning is 0-4. Tends to bring out the worst in him.

No way to make that general a statement on that small a sampling. But every QB plays worse in snow. Couple that with home field and and acclimation and it should be an edge for Brady even before you get into Peyton's lack of acclimation.

As all the greats do. But the point you keep ignoring is simple: He is a dominant regular season player who inexplicably runs into consistent trouble come the playoffs.

That's just not true. I've given you the numbers on his play. They don't match up with your repeated declarations. I invite anyone to go to the post season stats link and look at both quarterbacks play.

I see. So when Peyton was injured it was just "the team" who lost, and would have no matter what, with or without him.

Rather, when he was injured we got to see how poorly his team fared without him and how well Brady's did. The difference is astonishing. And neither back up has performed appreciably better since.

With that I'll just say anything else on the subject (assuming we have anything left) should be said in the football thread.

I'm okay with leaving it. But I consider this more a general sports talk than a 2013 football conversation.

Being born and raised in Detroit and growing up rooting for the Tigers I have mixed feelings about the series. I would've been happy with either team, though I'm extremely happy to be able to root for my Sox. I don't expect St. Louis to play that horribly again (it ain't possible...right?) but I fully expect Boston to win in six or seven.

I like your chances. Good luck. I think it would be a better win for baseball. :thumb:

 

[Town Heretic]

Here's a new topic: who wins the NBA crown this year? Is the repeat a given or will Indiana and Oklahoma and the reconstituted Nets have anything to say about it? Can the Spurs contend again? Will Houston or Chicago come after it?

 

[Granite]

No, we don't.

Yeah, we do. I know you have a pathological resistance to ever admitting a mistake--like, when it comes to anything--but teams live and die based on who's behind center.

Sure, the coach and GM who put teams together and prepare them. Players play their position.

:rotfl:

And thus don't have to account for their mistakes, or poor decision making. Or accept credit for good plays. Well that's good to know.

Except it isn't, which is why Archie Manning is widely regarded and Trent Dilfer isn't in the Hall.

And Dilfer never will be. However, his record indicates he's a world champion, and Archie's record says he wasn't. Like it or not. Them's the breaks.

Look, if you want to say the Pats play in a weaker division...

Ah, yes; let us look back fondly on the veritable powerhouse that was the AFC South when Peyton's boys faced their divisional opponents with much trepidation.:chuckle:

A 30 or 40 or even 50s rating is embarrassingly poor.

:think:

Unless we're talking about a...certain quarterback.:noid:

Four games. Too low a sample. You're comparing him to Tom, who lives in the stuff and was playing games at home. And those rough weather games for Tom didn't see him lighting up the board either.

Well, maybe not always in the playoffs. But he did pitch five touchdowns against the Titans in '09 in the midst of a freakish October blizzard.:chuckle:

Rather, when he was injured we got to see how poorly his team fared without him and how well Brady's did.

What you seem to be saying is that Peyton's been just downright cursed with bad or mediocre teams while Brady's been blessed with stellar ones. Sorry, that dog don't hunt.

I like your chances. Good luck. I think it would be a better win for baseball.

I think we're getting a lot of good will because of what happened in April. That said, we keep this up and people will be even more sick of triumphant New England teams than they are already.

http://espnmediazone3.com/rs/pages/view.php?ref=30485&search=!collection4331&k=544e9fc40d

 

[The Berean]

Here's a new topic: who wins the NBA crown this year? Is the repeat a given or will Indiana and Oklahoma and the reconstituted Nets have anything to say about it? Can the Spurs contend again? Will Houston or Chicago come after it?

How do the other teams stop LeBron and his cohorts? I'm not a LeBron fan by any means but he is in his prime and hungry for more titles.

 

[tetelestai]

That said, we keep this up and people will be even more sick of triumphant New England teams than they are already.

Huh?

If the Red Sox lose this series, that means the Boston teams will have all lost in the their respective major sports the last time each played in their Championship games/series:

2013 - Bruins lost to Blackhawks

2011 - Patriots lost to Giants

2010 - Celtics lost to Lakers

 

[tetelestai]

How do the other teams stop LeBron and his cohorts?

They can be stopped.

Indiana took them to 7 games last year in the East Finals, and the Spurs had the Championship won in Game 6, but let it get away.

So, it's not like Miami is dominating like the Bulls and Lakers used to.

Miami's weakness is their coaching. Erik Spoelstra has the most talent by far, but barely won it last year.

Besides the teams TH listed, I would keep an eye on the Houston Rockets. Despite the drama around Dwight Howard, he can still be a force. Howard combined with James Harden and Jeremy Lin could be as dominant as some of the recent "Big Three" combinations that other teams have had.

 

[Town Heretic]

Yeah, we do.

You do/I don't/so we don't.

I know you have a pathological resistance to ever admitting a mistake]--like, when it comes to anything

Meh, I don't tend to argue a point unless I've thought it over a great deal and looked at the data enough to feel pretty confident in my conclusion. Reading you I understand not everyone does that, but... Or, when was it that I missed in this or any thread where you did a mea culpa on any point that mattered to you?

Because I want to post that in Quixote's under: see guys, this is how you do it.

--but teams live and die based on who's behind center.

Frequently. If a quarterback, who is like a point guard in the NBA, doesn't get it right it's murder. But he can get it right, pass the ball and if the team doesn't shoot well or play sound defense they're still going to lose.

Again, Archie Manning's were almost uniformly horrible but we recognize his talent anyway. Trent Dilfer has a SB ring and no one is arguing him as more than a competent journeyman.

:rotfl:

And thus don't have to account for their mistakes, or poor decision making. Or accept credit for good plays. Well that's good to know.

You'd agree with me if we were talking about Tim Tebow and I said the wins were a team effort.

And Dilfer never will be. However, his record indicates he's a world champion, and Archie's record says he wasn't. Like it or not. Them's the breaks.

Who argued he wasn't? Not me. And the guy who rode the bench and didn't contribute in the ballgame has a ring too.

We aren't talking about team records or SB rings. You want a list of HOFers without rings considered by peers and anyone paying attention to be worlds better than Dilfer and any number of people with rings?

It's a long list.

There's the team and there's the position. A QB can contribute significantly to the team win or loss, but that's it. He can have a terrific day and still lose, like Peyton did in one of the games I set out, or he can stink it up and still win, like Brady did in one of the games I set out.

Ah, yes; let us look back fondly on the veritable powerhouse that was the AFC South when Peyton's boys faced their divisional opponents with much trepidation.:chuckle:

Neither team had particularly tough divisions.

But we had division rivals Tennessee when they were 11-5, 12-4 and 13-3 and we had Jacksonville when they were 12-4 and 11-5.

In that same 2002-20010 run you were looking at Mia 10-6 and 11-5 and the Jets 10-6, 10-6 and 11-5. One of our primary divisional opponents made it to the Super Bowl and nearly won it. How many of your division rivals did that?

:think:

Unless we're talking about a...certain quarterback.:noid:

:chuckle:

Well, maybe not always in the playoffs. But he did pitch five touchdowns against the Titans in '09 in the midst of a freakish October blizzard.:chuckle:

He did. And I don't disparage it. But he had a lot more time to figure out his game under those conditions.

And, again, outside of last year:

Peyton Manning – Career Stats in Games Under 40 Degrees:

292-453, 3553 yards, 23 TDs, 14 INT (64.5%, 7.8 ypa, 92.5 QB rating)

That's actually pretty decent for anyone.

Peyton Manning – Last Five Seasons: Stats in Games Under 40 Degrees:

165-235, 2132 yards, 16 TDs, 9 INT (70.2%, 9.1 ypa, 105.1 QB rating)

And that's darn good by anyone's estimation.

What you seem to be saying is that Peyton's been just downright cursed with bad or mediocre teams while Brady's been blessed with stellar ones. Sorry, that dog don't hunt.

I never said anything of the sort. What I noted was how many of Brady's wins were decided by three points and how many of Peyton's losses. I noted how well your team did without Brady and how horribly mine failed without Peyton.

I think we're getting a lot of good will because of what happened in April. That said, we keep this up and people will be even more sick of triumphant New England teams than they are already.

Not this guy, but I'm a Celtics fan and an AFC guy. So if my team can't win I never have a problem rooting for yours. I don't think you'll need luck, but good luck anyway with the Series.

 

[tetelestai]

The NFL announced 3 games in London next year.

Does anyone besides me think playing regular season NFL games in England is stupid?

 

[Town Heretic]

How do the other teams stop LeBron and his cohorts? I'm not a LeBron fan by any means but he is in his prime and hungry for more titles.

If Greg can give them presence under the basket in the playoffs I don't see it happening. If not, it was tight last year, Chicago will be much better with their superstar on the court and they were potent without him and Houston is a wild card.

I think it's going to be an exciting year.

 

[The Berean]

The NFL announced 3 games in London next year.

Does anyone besides me think playing regular season NFL games in England is stupid?

Is the NFL that popular in England? I'd rather see NFL games played in Canada before England.

 

[The Berean]

They can be stopped.

Indiana took them to 7 games last year in the East Finals, and the Spurs had the Championship won in Game 6, but let it get away.

So, it's not like Miami is dominating like the Bulls and Lakers used to.

Miami's weakness is their coaching. Erik Spoelstra has the most talent by far, but barely won it last year.

Besides the teams TH listed, I would keep an eye on the Houston Rockets. Despite the drama around Dwight Howard, he can still be a force. Howard combined with James Harden and Jeremy Lin could be as dominant as some of the recent "Big Three" combinations that other teams have had.

I'm looking forward seeing how my Golden State Warriors improve this season. They haven't been to the Western Conference finals since 1976.

 

[Sherman]

So far the Trojans stink...

Posted from the TOL App!

 

[Town Heretic]

They can be stopped.

Indiana took them to 7 games last year in the East Finals, and the Spurs had the Championship won in Game 6, but let it get away.

That's why they gambled on Greg. And Wade needs to be healthy.

So, it's not like Miami is dominating like the Bulls and Lakers used to.

Nope. Don't have the depth to do that and they have more competition.

Miami's weakness is their coaching. Erik Spoelstra has the most talent by far, but barely won it last year.

He doesn't do much for me either.

Besides the teams TH listed, I would keep an eye on the Houston Rockets.

I mentioned them. I think they're the wild card. How quickly can they gel? Because the pieces are definitely there.

Despite the drama around Dwight Howard, he can still be a force. Howard combined with James Harden and Jeremy Lin could be as dominant as some of the recent "Big Three" combinations that other teams have had.

If they can work together they're potentially as potent as anything short of Miami and I like their depth.

 

[The Berean]

Let's talk about this guy.

Baseball writer/historian Bill Jenkinson wrote a book called Baseball's Ultimate Power: Ranking the All-Time Greatest Distance Home Run Hitters. In this book Jenkinson publishes his 30 years of research on the 10 greatest long distance home run hitters. According to his research, Babe Ruth hit about 50 home runs over 500 feet, by far the most of any player in history. How a man born in 1895 could hit a baseball so much further than anybody else defies explanation. But, it's true.

 

[tetelestai]

Let's talk about this guy.

Baseball writer/historian Bill Jenkinson wrote a book called Baseball's Ultimate Power: Ranking the All-Time Greatest Distance Home Run Hitters. In this book Jenkinson publishes his 30 years of research on the 10 greatest long distance home run hitters. According to his research, Babe Ruth hit about 50 home runs over 500 feet, by far the most of any player in history. How a man born in 1895 could hit a baseball so much further than anybody else defies explanation. But, it's true.

Do you know where Willie Stargell ranks on his list?

To this day Willie Stargell is the only player to ever hit a home run out of Dodger Stadium TWICE (1969 & 1973). For over 30 years Stargell was the only player to have ever hit it out of Dodger Stadium. Piazza and McGuire later hit one each, but Stargell was the first, and he did it twice.

Stargell also had the longest homer ever hit at Veterans Stadium in Philadelphia, and the longest homer ever hit at Olympic Stadium in Montreal.

From 1909 to 1970 only eighteen balls ever cleared the 86' high roof at Forbes Field. Babe Ruth was the first to do it; Stargell did it 7 times. The shot that Ruth hit was in 1936 when he played for the Boston Braves. It was his last home run (714th).

There were only 6 home runs ever hit in the right field upper deck at Three Rivers Stadium, Stargell hit 4 of them.

Nobody had more home runs during the 1970's than Willie Stargell.

At one point Stargell had the longest home runs at half the National League parks.

Berean, I don't know what part of the Bay Area you live in, but Stargell went to Encinal High School in Alameda.

 

[The Berean]

Do you know where Willie Stargell ranks on his list?

To this day Willie Stargell is the only player to ever hit a home run out of Dodger Stadium TWICE (1969 & 1973). For over 30 years Stargell was the only player to have ever hit it out of Dodger Stadium. Piazza and McGuire later hit one each, but Stargell was the first, and he did it twice.

Stargell also had the longest homer ever hit at Veterans Stadium in Philadelphia, and the longest homer ever hit at Olympic Stadium in Montreal.

From 1909 to 1970 only eighteen balls ever cleared the 86' high roof at Forbes Field. Babe Ruth was the first to do it; Stargell did it 7 times. The shot that Ruth hit was in 1936 when he played for the Boston Braves. It was his last home run (714th).

There were only 6 home runs ever hit in the right field upper deck at Three Rivers Stadium, Stargell hit 4 of them.

Nobody had more home runs during the 1970's than Willie Stargell.

At one point Stargell had the longest home runs at half the National League parks.

Berean, I don't know what part of the Bay Area you live in, but Stargell went to Encinal High School in Alameda.

I'm not sure I agree that Stargell should be credited with two home runs hit out of Dodger Stadium. His first one on August 6th, 1969 cleared Dodger Stadium completely as Stargell cleared the right field roof. But his second bomb on May 8th, 1973 hit right field roof and bounced out. It did not clear the roof on the fly. If the roof was not there the ball would not have left the stadium.

http://wapc.mlb.com/lad/play/?content_id=22885457&topic_id=33533922

As for where he ranks in the book, I'll go find out. I haven't read it yet.

 

[tetelestai]

I'm looking forward seeing how my Golden State Warriors improve this season. They haven't been to the Western Conference finals since 1976.

I bet if the Warriors played their games at the Cow Palace this year they would make it to the Finals :chuckle:

Rick Barry is the only player to ever lead the NCAA, ABA, and NBA in scoring for an individual season.

 

[tetelestai]

I'm not sure I agree that Stargell should be credited with two home runs hit out of Dodger Stadium. His first one on August 6th, 1969 cleared Dodger Stadium completely as Stargell cleared the right field roof. But his second bomb on May 8th, 1973 hit right field roof and bounced out. It did not clear the roof on the fly. If the roof was not there the ball would not have left the stadium.

It's like hitting the top of the outfield wall, and then the ball going over....it's still a home run.

Same thing for Stargell's second home run at Dodger Stadium. The ball ended up in the parking lot.

At Fenway Park they have a seat in right field painted red amongst all the green seats. Ted Williams hit a home run that landed in that seat in 1946. It is 502 feet from home plate. It's hard to believe that no one has hit one further in 67 years.

It's also hard to believe that Babe Ruth never hit one further than Williams' shot considering how many times he played there.

 

[tetelestai]

http://wapc.mlb.com/lad/play/?content_id=22885457&topic_id=33533922

As for where he ranks in the book, I'll go find out. I haven't read it yet.

Check THIS out.

 

[The Berean]

In the Jenkinson book at least three home runs are listed as going further than 502 feet.

Left Field- 510 ft, Jimmie Foxx 08/16/1940
Center Field- 515 ft, Babe Ruth 06/22/1927
Right Field- 540 ft, Babe Ruth 05/16/1926