Gay activist calls for teen's parents to be prosecuted

[genuineoriginal]

On this, the only disagreement is the pronouns. I'm sure it is reassuring to you to reinforce your understanding of gender as a strict binary by imposing your understanding on those who obviously don't share it.

Gender is a biological condition, but it is not necessarily binary.
There are more combinations than XX and XY.

Until you can alter the DNA of a person from XY to XX, the person remains a male and will never be a female no matter what crazy thoughts that person has about being something other than what he is nor how badly you mutilate his body through surgery and drugs.

 

[rexlunae]

So people can pump them full of drugs so they can stop their bodies from developing naturally? That's just sick and twisted.

And yet, if you were diagnosed with cancer, I'd bet you would go in for chemotherapy. Or at least you probably wouldn't disparage others for doing so.

 

[The Berean]

On this, the only disagreement is the pronouns. I'm sure it is reassuring to you to reinforce your understanding of gender as a strict binary by imposing your understanding on those who obviously don't share it.

Do you mean like this boy's mother? This boy's mother gave birth to her son and has every right to refer to her child as her "son". Those who disagree and attack her are disgusting and twisted people. :madmad:

 

[rexlunae]

Translation: if you surgically or chemically mutilate the child before he or she hits puberty, you can prevent the nature from running its ordinary course.

"Mutilation" is your subjective judgement. And why this silly adherence to "nature's course" when it comes to gender? Do you object to medical interventions in general?

 

[The Berean]

And yet, if you were diagnosed with cancer, I'd bet you would go in for chemotherapy.

Please don't assume you know what I think. And of course having cancer is the same as a confused boy who thinks he's a girl. They are obviously equivalent. :doh:

Or at least you probably wouldn't disparage others for doing so.

Who did I disparage?

 

[Traditio]

"Mutilation" is your subjective judgement.

False.

And why this silly adherence to "nature's course" when it comes to gender? Do you object to medical interventions in general?

No intervention is medical (but, rather, is contrary to the medical) which perverts or corrupts nature. The very raison d'etre of medicine is to aid nature (understood in the Aristotelian sense of physis).

 

[genuineoriginal]

And yet, if you were diagnosed with cancer, I'd bet you would go in for chemotherapy. Or at least you probably wouldn't disparage others for doing so.

If a man thinks he is a lizard, should anyone encourage his delusions by mutilating his body and using chemicals on him that would make him look like a lizard?

Or should they discourage his delusions by telling him he is crazy for thinking such nonsense?

 

[rexlunae]

Gender is a biological condition, but it is not necessarily binary.
There are more combinations than XX and XY.

That acknowledgement makes your further confusion even more baffling.

Until you can alter the DNA of a person from XY to XX, the person remains a male and will never be a female no matter what crazy thoughts that person has about being something other than what he is nor how badly you mutilate his body through surgery and drugs.

Quite simply, gender may be largely the result of genetics in humans, but it is not identical to genetics. Nor should genetics dictate the appropriate way to handle gender dysphoria. It's a lot easier and ethically a lot less of a minefield to alter a person's body than it is their mind.

See also:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2190741/
(a naturally occurring, fertile XY woman)

 

[The Berean]

If a man thinks he is a lizard, should anyone encourage his delusions by mutilating his body and using chemicals on him that would make him look like a lizard?

Or should they discourage his delusions by telling him he is crazy for thinking such nonsense?

There there's "Tiger man".

http://didyouknowblog.com/post/59550805228/a-man-spent-more-than-200-000-on-plastic-surgery

 

[Selaphiel]

No intervention is medical (but, rather, is contrary to the medical) which perverts or corrupts nature. The very raison d'etre of medicine is to aid nature (understood in the Aristotelian sense of physis).

How are you aiding nature by injecting toxins that destroy a naturally occuring mutated cell growths? Chemotherapy and many other medical treatments are anything but an aid of nature, they disrupt natural lethal or encumbering processes in the body. Advancements in medical technology is pretty much our ability to control, select and prevent certain natural processes. Your selection of what is natural and not is arbitrary at best.

Be honest now, how much do you really know about the condition in question from a medical and psychiatric perspective? I'm guessing not much.

 

[genuineoriginal]

That acknowledgement makes your further confusion even more baffling.

I am not the one that is confused.

Quite simply, gender may be largely the result of genetics in humans, but it is not identical to genetics.

Actually, gender is solely genetic.

Nor should genetics dictate the appropriate way to handle gender dysphoria.

Of course it should.
What crazy person told you it shouldn't?

It's a lot easier and ethically a lot less of a minefield to alter a person's body than it is their mind.

See my post about the man that believes he is a lizard.

 

[rexlunae]

Please don't assume you know what I think.

Well, fine, but you didn't actually say where you differ with my summation.

And of course having cancer is the same as a confused boy who thinks he's a girl. They are obviously equivalent. :doh:

What difference do you think there is?

Who did I disparage?

People who don't want their bodies to "develop naturally", as you put it. Or was "sick and twisted" supposed to be a compliment?

My mother wore braces when she was younger. I suppose you think realigning her teeth was "sick and twisted" too?

 

[Traditio]

The basic problem with atheists and modern liberals is that they have no conception of nature or physis in the Aristotelian sense. The atheist is a materialist of the basest variety. For him, all the world is matter, and it is utterly immaterial (pun intended) how that matter is to be shaped and organized. Male? Female? Dog? Cat? Just as though biological lego-pieces, it's just a matter of how the basic stuff is put together.

All that matters, in the end, is our choice. If there's the stuff and we want to arrange that stuff in a certain way, that's all that matters.

In fact, there's more to the world than "stuff." Things are what they are. A dog is not simply an arrangement of stuff. It's such and such a kind of animal.

A man is not simply an arrangement of stuff. It's such and such a kind of animal.

Likewise, the difference between male and female is not simply an arrangement of "stuff." Just as even and odd are proper accidents or properties of all numbers, so too, male and female are proper accidents of all of those animals to which gender applies.

The moment we recognize that there is such a thing as nature (that is, what things are) is the moment that we also must recognize that we can't just arrange and rearrange the world however we like. It's not the case that everything is dependent on our choice.

We must see in the perceptible organization of things their underlying natures. Male and female have different physical organizations because men and women are naturally different. We must recognize that the world is a certain way, completely independent of our choice.

 

[Traditio]

How are you aiding nature by injecting toxins that destroy a naturally occuring mutated cell growths?

Equivocation on "naturally." Being cancerous isn't the natural/healthy state of the animal body.

 

[PureX]

Defined by whom?

Defined by the child protection agency, and by a court of law if it comes to that. Ultimately, it's defined by common reason, as in the end that is the ideal basis for both the law and the agency policies.

Professional psychological help for what? To my understanding, homosexuality, etc. aren't in the DSM anymore, are they?

We aren't talking about "homosexuality, etc.". We're talking about gender identity disorder. Please try and follow the thread.

 

[rexlunae]

Actually, gender is solely genetic.

I noticed that you didn't even acknowledge my link about the XY woman. I can understand, given how forcefully you insist on a genetic definition of gender, why you purged it from your awareness, but you can't abolish it from reality just by ignoring it.

What would you call a person who is born with female genetalia, who was previously unaware of any difference between herself and any other woman, who menstruates, who successfully gives birth to a biological daughter, and who is genetically XY? A man?

There is necessarily a distinction between genetics and gender. If you fail to make it, pretty much everything you say about gender will be wrong.

 

[Traditio]

We aren't talking about "homosexuality, etc.". We're talking about gender identity disorder.

I was including that in the "etc." Transgender/gender identity disorder is in the DSM?

Please try and follow the thread.

Oh, save the snark. :nono:

 

[PureX]

What nonsense is this? I wonder what will happen when she researches puberty and starts developing a woman's body; breasts, hips, etc...

Keep in mind that there is no news reporting going on here. This is the exact equivalent of something we'd read in a dime-store rag like the Star or Enquirer.

 

[annabenedetti]

We must see in the perceptible organization of things their underlying natures. Male and female have different physical organizations because men and women are naturally different. We must recognize that the world is a certain way, completely independent of our choice.

You do know you began life as a female, right?

 

[The Berean]

Keep in mind that there is no news reporting going on here. This is the exact equivalent of something we'd read in a dime-store rag like the Star or Enquirer.

It does sound like made up nonsense. :chuckle: