Forgiving Others

[Poly]

Originally posted by Knight

If only I had a dime for every........

Hey, I've got it! Let's get a fund raiser going. Everybody donates a dime for every time Freak twists words. TOL could easily be supported that way. :bannana:

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Originally posted by Poly

Hey, I've got it! Let's get a fund raiser going. Everybody donates a dime for every time Freak twists words. TOL could easily be supported that way. :bannana:

:ha: We'll be rich.... RICH I tell you!!!!

 

[BillyBob]

Originally posted by Knight

BB.... you are impressing me on this thread... very nice!

Good work! :up:

 

[Nathon Detroit]

bump

 

[Yorzhik]

I think the forgiveness people are afraid. Bunch of yellow-bellied brainless can't think past their nose crack-pots that they are.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Originally posted by Yorzhik

I think the forgiveness people are afraid. Bunch of yellow-bellied brainless can't think past their nose crack-pots that they are.

:chuckle:

I know where you are going errrrrrrrrrrrr I know what you mean.

 

[Yorzhik]

 

[firechyld]

You'll never be forgiven for that comment!

*staples hand to forehead*

 

[Yorzhik]

And I'm not asking for forgiveness, either.

 

[firechyld]

Well, in that case you can have it. You can just deal.

 

[Crow]

I think that forgiveness has to be a two party effort in order to achieve the full benefit.

Certainly, we should let go of anger toward another person if it is eating away at us.

But true forgiveness is something more.

If we forgive another with no regret nor action on their part, we have taken from them an opportunity to face up to what they have done and to make ammends. They have not made things right, and may continue in their wrongful behavior toward others because they have not been made to deal with the consequences of the behavior.

I agree with BillyBob that it's hard to not forgive one who is truly sorry for his tresspasses. It would be harmful to both that person and myself.

Forgiveness does not release them from obligation to undo their act to the best of their ability. I can forgive the kid that breaks my window, but I also expect him to pay to have it repaired. Restitution not only restores that which the victim lost, but it is the way a transgressor restores himself--releasing him from obligation to the victim and helps to repair the damage to their relationship that was caused by their act.

Correct forgiveness--seeking forgiveness, forgiving, restitution, and restoration--is beneficial to both parties. Incorrect forgiveness--just blanket-stamping every transgression "forgiven"--might make the victim feel better about himself, but it does not address the problem that the offender has with behaving decently toward others, and creates a likelyhood that he will continue in his destructive actions.

 

[firechyld]

Hrmm...

I forgive for my sake. The person who has wronged me should remedy their actions not because I'm still holding a grudge, but because they want to better themselves.

Changing for someone else isn't true change. It has to start from within.

I'd say that (to me at least) forgiveness and remorse can be mutually exclusive.

That's not to say that it always should be, of course...

 

[Crow]

Originally posted by firechyld

Hrmm...

I forgive for my sake. The person who has wronged me should remedy their actions not because I'm still holding a grudge, but because they want to better themselves.

Changing for someone else isn't true change. It has to start from within.

I'd say that (to me at least) forgiveness and remorse can be mutually exclusive.

That's not to say that it always should be, of course...

Ideally, both parties would participate, but that's ideally, not actually.

My mother has never admitted that she was wrong to abuse her kids. I don't hold a grudge against her, but our relationship is not restored as it would have been if she had done so.

Forgiveness and seeking forgiveness benefits both parties. And seeking forgiveness is a change from within, unless, of course, it's at the insistance of one's defense attorney. :bannana:

 

[Freak]

Originally posted by Crow

I think that forgiveness has to be a two party effort in order to achieve the full benefit.

I have a close friend who was raped up in a park in Seattle. This friend harbored hate, rage, unforgiveness, bitterness towards this person (whom they did not know) for 20 years. Finally, my friend forgave, releasing their right to be angry, which liberated my friend from all the anger she had been holding unto for years. True forgiveness, in this case, wasn't two party for she didn't even know the person that raped her. She forgave and she now lives alife of true freedom.

Like Jesus said...

Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours. And when you stand praying, if you hold anything against anyone, forgive him, so that your Father in heaven may forgive you your sins.

 

[Crow]

Originally posted by Freak

I have a close friend who was raped up in a park in Seattle. This friend harbored hate, rage, unforgiveness, bitterness towards this person (whom they did not know) for 20 years. Finally, my friend forgave, releasing their right to be angry, which liberated my friend from all the anger she had been holding unto for years. True forgiveness, in this case, wasn't two party for she didn't even know the person that raped her. She forgave and she now lives alife of true freedom.

Like Jesus said...

Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours. And when you stand praying, if you hold anything against anyone, forgive him, so that your Father in heaven may forgive you your sins.

Freak, does the perpetrator of a sinful act receive healing and spiritual growth from forgiveness if he does not confess, repent, and make restitution of his transgression? No. In order for forgiveness to benefit both parties, both parties have to be involved.

This is the part of my post you addressed:

I think that forgiveness has to be a two party effort in order to achieve the full benefit.

And I stand by that. Unless the transgressor seeks forgiveness, only one party benefits. The transgressor does not receive any spiritual benefit.

As for what Jesus said, He was absolutely right. We have go to God through Christ in faith to obtain Grace and forgiveness for our sins.

If we approach God under the pretext that we have committed no sins and therefore do not require a Savior, then are we forgiven? Where do we go in the afterlife? Hint: :devil: That is the manner in which God forgives. We should forgive as He does.

We can forgive as in let go of our anger, but the full benefit does not occur soley on our actions.

 

[Nineveh]

Crow,
I like how you have explained your understanding on forgiveness.

I had a question about the "anger" and "hate" side of it, is it necessary to tie forgiving and not forgiving to the emotions of "anger" and "hate"? It seems unhealthy to act soley from those emotional states...

*****
In general, to the topic:

I would like to add, asking for forgiveness isn't always easy, and can be quite painful. But after I sought the soul saving forgiveness Christ has to offer, asking a neighbor or brother for forgiveness is way easier now.

Looking at and facing the infractions we commit against others, if we have any heart at all, can be soul wrenching. Especially if that wronged party has since passed on.

I have found guilt to be just as detrimental as harbored anger and hate.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Originally posted by Crow

I think that forgiveness has to be a two party effort in order to achieve the full benefit.

Certainly, we should let go of anger toward another person if it is eating away at us.

But true forgiveness is something more.

If we forgive another with no regret nor action on their part, we have taken from them an opportunity to face up to what they have done and to make ammends. They have not made things right, and may continue in their wrongful behavior toward others because they have not been made to deal with the consequences of the behavior.

I agree with BillyBob that it's hard to not forgive one who is truly sorry for his tresspasses. It would be harmful to both that person and myself.

Forgiveness does not release them from obligation to undo their act to the best of their ability. I can forgive the kid that breaks my window, but I also expect him to pay to have it repaired. Restitution not only restores that which the victim lost, but it is the way a transgressor restores himself--releasing him from obligation to the victim and helps to repair the damage to their relationship that was caused by their act.

Correct forgiveness--seeking forgiveness, forgiving, restitution, and restoration--is beneficial to both parties. Incorrect forgiveness--just blanket-stamping every transgression "forgiven"--might make the victim feel better about himself, but it does not address the problem that the offender has with behaving decently toward others, and creates a likelyhood that he will continue in his destructive actions.

Excellent! :thumb:

 

[Freak]

Originally posted by Crow

Freak, does the perpetrator of a sinful act receive healing and spiritual growth from forgiveness if he does not confess, repent, and make restitution of his transgression? No.

We, however, receive, healing when we release the bitterness & malice we might hold unto though by refusing to forgive. We need to forgive for there are many times we might not have the opportunity to get face to face with the perpetrator. Wouldn't you agree?

We can forgive as in let go of our anger, but the full benefit does not occur soley on our actions.

:dizzy: What if you can't get in touch with the person or don't know the person? Can we forgive them without knowing if they have repented?

 

[Nineveh]

I don't mean to butt in, but...

Freak, you say, "We, however, receive, healing when we release the bitterness & malice we might hold unto though by refusing to forgive."

Why does it seem "bitterness", "malice", hate" and "emotional pain" need to rely on forgiveness or the withholding of forgiveness?

Bad emotions aren't a good basis for forgiving or not. Either you can give the power to let others manipulate you emotionaly, or you seek The Comforter's guidence. In the same way, those in The Body have asked Jesus.

We need to forgive for there are many times we might not have the opportunity to get face to face with the perpetrator.

That seems like a good reason for those who know they need to seek forgiveness from others as soon as they can. In essence, leaving their sacrifice and making peace before they offer their best to God. Everything we do, Freak, is a witness to Christ. When does God cover our sins? When we ask.

 

[Freak]

Originally posted by Nineveh
Why does it seem "bitterness", "malice", hate" and "emotional pain" need to rely on forgiveness or the withholding of forgiveness?

When someone is wronged they should respond in forgiveness and not unforgiveness. Simple.

Bad emotions aren't a good basis for forgiving or not.

Sure it is. We shouldn't hold unto anger, hate, bitterness, or malice. We should release those emotions and forgive those who wronged us.

Therefore, as God's chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience. Bear with each other and forgive whatever grievances you may have against one another.

Get rid of all bitterness, rage and anger, brawling and slander, along with every form of malice.

Everything we do, Freak, is a witness to Christ. When does God cover our sins? When we ask.

I noticed you completely ignored my question. Let's try again...
What if you can't get in touch with the person or don't know the person? Can we forgive them without knowing if they have repented? Answer this question! Please.