Forgiveness

[lovemeorhateme]

Hi.

I am starting this thread at the suggestion of Rimi. My question is, what are the conditions of my forgiving other people? Here are the two scriptures I would like to cite:

So watch yourselves. 'If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him. If he sins against you seven times a day, and seven times comes back to you and says, 'I repent,' forgive him.' Luke 17:3 NIV

So, that would seem to imply that someone has to repent before I should forgive them. But, when I look somewhere else in the New Testament, I get a bit confused!

For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins. Matthew 6: 14-15 NIV

So, is repentance a condition of forgiveness? Or, is it the case that if I don't forgive someone, regardless or whether or not they have repented, the Lord will not forgive my sins?

Pete

 

[servent101]

Pete

So, is repentance a condition of forgiveness? Or, is it the case that if I don't forgive someone, regardless or whether or not they have repented, the Lord will not forgive my sins?

This forgiveness is hard to actually do - what it means is to act in such a way, and hold an opinion of the other, as if the tresspass did not occur. To ourselves, and to others how do we know that we actually have forgiven a person? - so anyways, once you decide to forgive a person, and the reasons for forgiving someone - then carring out that forgiveness is the more tricky part.

So anyways - I try to follow the example of Christ - and he forgives people, before they even know they did something wrong.

So the possibility does exist - that some people will hurt you beyond your ability to cope - so you have to stay away from them.

With Christ's Love

Servent101

 

[Emo]

So, is repentance a condition of forgiveness?

Yep, if an individual approaches you & admits to his wrongdoing then they should be forgiven. Is this not the message of Christ?

I'll somewhat repost the Scripture from Luke again, just to be clear.

• Luke 17:4
  And if he sins against you seven times in a day, and seven times in a day returns to you, saying, 'I repent,' you shall forgive him."

Or, is it the case that if I don't forgive someone, regardless or whether or not they have repented, the Lord will not forgive my sins?

It's just like my first posted sentence. Humbling oneself before Christ, asking for forgiveness of your sins, believing He was raised from the dead is truly what one should be concerned with, first & foremost. Then, as a Christian, we use the Savior as our model for forgiving others.

• Col. 3:13
  bearing with one another, and forgiving one another, if anyone has a complaint against another; even as Christ forgave you, so you also must do.

 

[PureX]

I think it means that when someone repents, tell them they are forgiven. I they do not repent, don't tell them they are forgiven, but forgive them anyway, so that you will be free from resentment, and so that you will hopefully be forgiven in turn, whether you recognize that you have done harm to others and repent of it or not.

We should realize that many times when we do harm to others, we do so without realizing it, and maybe without even meaning to do it. And the same is true of when others cause us harm. Very few people intend to hurt other people. yet we hurt each other all the time. This is WHY we need forgiveness all around.

 

[Agape4Robin]

I think it means that when someone repents, tell them they are forgiven. I they do not repent, don't tell them they are forgiven, but forgive the anyway, so that you will be free from resentment, and so that you will hopefully be forgiven in turn, whether you recognize that you have done harm to others and repent of it or not.

We shoild realize that many times when do harm to others, we do so without realizing it, and maybe without even meaning to do it. And the same is true of when others cause us harm. Very few people intend to hurt other people. yet we hurt each other all the time. This is WHY we need forgiveness all around.

You took the words out of my mouth...... :thumb:

 

[Justin (Wiccan)]

So, is repentance a condition of forgiveness? Or, is it the case that if I don't forgive someone, regardless or whether or not they have repented, the Lord will not forgive my sins?

Both--how can you repent unless you're willing to accept someone else's repentance.

 

[Rimi]

Who is the forgiveness for? The forgiver or the forgivee?

 

[Justin (Wiccan)]

Who is the forgiveness for? The forgiver or the forgivee?

The two cannot be separated.

 

[Servo]

'If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him"

Not difficult to understand.

 

[Rimi]

The two cannot be separated.

Huh? Sure they can! When we repent and God forgives, He doesn't do it to make Himself feel better. And certainly God does not forgive without repentence. If we go on the "forgive even if they don't repent" then we'd have to think that God does that. But we know He doesn't because He has stated plainly that there is a place prepared for unrepentent individuals.

 

[Justin (Wiccan)]

Huh? Sure they can! When we repent and God forgives, He doesn't do it to make Himself feel better. And certainly God does not forgive without repentence. If we go on the "forgive even if they don't repent" then we'd have to think that God does that. But we know He doesn't because He has stated plainly that there is a place prepared for unrepentent individuals.

Ah, waitaminit--that's a completely different context, and while I agree that God certainly does not need our forgiveness, it's not a parallel. I was referring solely to forgiveness between people. Sorry about the confusion.

 

[temple2006]

To be OK with yourself and others, you cannot hold grudges. Anger will not only feed your grudges but also eat your lunch in a physical way. I am not suggesting that you be big buddies with the unrepentent offender but Jesus says that we are to love each other and not vice versa.

 

[Rimi]

Ah, waitaminit--that's a completely different context, and while I agree that God certainly does not need our forgiveness, it's not a parallel. I was referring solely to forgiveness between people. Sorry about the confusion.

Well, I see where you're coming from, but I still don't think you have it the way Jesus taught it. Of course, the most clear cut is Luke 17:3. But then there's how God forgives: repent first, then He will forgive. And Jesus said to be like the Father, right?

Also, a wonderful parable that Jesus taught is of the Wiccan Servant . . .,er, wait, that's the Wicked Servant. Matthew 18:23-35. Please read it and you'll see that there was confrontation, repentence, and only then forgiveness. The Servant didn't forgive JUST LIKE he was forgiven, and he paid dearly for it. So, how was he forgiven? Only after he repented. And so it is to be between people. Hope that makes sense.

 

[Rimi]

P. S. Not that God needs our forgiveness . . . He must have our repentence before we forgive. And that is the example of God that we are to follow.

 

[ebenz47037]

I think it means that when someone repents, tell them they are forgiven. I they do not repent, don't tell them they are forgiven, but forgive them anyway, so that you will be free from resentment, and so that you will hopefully be forgiven in turn, whether you recognize that you have done harm to others and repent of it or not.

We should realize that many times when we do harm to others, we do so without realizing it, and maybe without even meaning to do it. And the same is true of when others cause us harm. Very few people intend to hurt other people. yet we hurt each other all the time. This is WHY we need forgiveness all around.

For a change (at least lately), I actually agree with you, PureX. There are some cases, if you don't forgive the person who has wronged you, you will be eaten alive with anger and resentment. I had to do this a couple of times, myself, because I was always so angry with my step-father and my mother. I had to forgive them even though they didn't repent of what I felt they did wrong. Once I did that, my resentment and anger with both of them went away.

 

[cattyfan]

I think it means that when someone repents, tell them they are forgiven. I they do not repent, don't tell them they are forgiven, but forgive them anyway, so that you will be free from resentment, and so that you will hopefully be forgiven in turn, whether you recognize that you have done harm to others and repent of it or not.

We should realize that many times when we do harm to others, we do so without realizing it, and maybe without even meaning to do it. And the same is true of when others cause us harm. Very few people intend to hurt other people. yet we hurt each other all the time. This is WHY we need forgiveness all around.

well stated! think I'll make this a post of the day

 

[deathwish]

well stated! think I'll make this a post of the day

Indeed

 

[Turbo]

I think it means that when someone repents, tell them they are forgiven. I they do not repent, don't tell them they are forgiven, but forgive them anyway,

:nono: Contrast this with the words of Christ:

[jesus]"Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that ‘by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’ And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector."[/jesus] Matthew 18:15-17​

We should realize that many times when we do harm to others, we do so without realizing it, and maybe without even meaning to do it.

That is one of the reasons why Christ said to rebuke whoever sins against you (and to forgive them if they repent). That is one of the reasons why rebuke is loving:

"You shall not hate your brother in your heart. You shall surely rebuke your neighbor, and not bear sin because of him." Leviticus 19:17​

 

[Sozo]

I think it means that when someone repents, tell them they are forgiven. I they do not repent, don't tell them they are forgiven, but forgive them anyway, so that you will be free from resentment, and so that you will hopefully be forgiven in turn, whether you recognize that you have done harm to others and repent of it or not.

Unless things of changed, I take it that you have not come to Christ for salvation. Is that correct, PureX?

In any case, as a Christian, I found it impossible to believe that God would ask us to do something that He Himself cannot do. Perhaps, in the long run, you are hoping that God will save you apart from repentance.






P.S.... I wouldn't count on it

 

[Rimi]

Turbo wrote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Purex

I think it means that when someone repents, tell them they are forgiven. I they do not repent, don't tell them they are forgiven, but forgive them anyway,


Contrast this with the words of Christ:
"Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that ‘by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’ And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector." Matthew 18:15-17


Quote:
We should realize that many times when we do harm to others, we do so without realizing it, and maybe without even meaning to do it.

That is one of the reasons why Christ said to rebuke whoever sins against you (and to forgive them if they repent). That is one of the reasons why rebuke is loving:

"You shall not hate your brother in your heart. You shall surely rebuke your neighbor, and not bear sin because of him." Leviticus 19:17

Tried to good rep you, Turbo. Next time, eh. It IS loving to rebuke, tho not a "nice" feeling. You presented God's way of doing things per His word wonderfully.