For The Sake Of Truth

[chrysostom]

Once you have explained God. :up:

a necessary uncaused cause

 

[gcthomas]

Nature is that necessary uncaused cause.

 

[Hedshaker]

something did do it
it is unreasonable to think it happened all by itself

Neither of us know exactly what did it but it is reasonable to suspect something natural since we have never encountered anything other.

we call that something God
and
we call you unreasonable
you don't have a reasonable explanation

To call it what you want it to be for no other reason than cherished belief is unreasonable. You just don't have the guts to admit it.

 

[chrysostom]

Nature is that necessary uncaused cause.

nature tells us everything must have a cause
so
you are still being unreasonable

 

[Hedshaker]

a necessary uncaused cause

How is that any different from magic did it?

 

[Hedshaker]

nature tells us everything must have a cause
so
you are still being unreasonable

No it doesn't. You are clearly the unreasonable one.

And if everything must have a cause then what caused God?

 

[chrysostom]

Neither of us know exactly what did it but it is reasonable to suspect something natural since we have never encountered anything other.



To call it what you want it to be for no other reason than cherished belief is unreasonable. You just don't have the guts to admit it.

you must have an uncaused cause

entropy tells us that

 

[Hedshaker]

you must have an uncaused cause

entropy tells us that

A cause for what exactly? The universe may have had a beginning but no one knows the state of existence before that so no one can possibly know what caused the formation of the universe.

Claiming to know what is unknown is unreasonable QED.

 

[Jamie Gigliotti]

This is just nonsense. Please find someone else to preach at.

Thanks

Just as finding all the answers in science is nonsense.

 

[chrysostom]

A cause for what exactly? The universe may have had a beginning but no one knows the state of existence before that so no one can possibly know what caused the formation of the universe.

Claiming to know what is unknown is unreasonable QED.

we don't claim to know
even your accusations are unreasonable

entropy tells us the universe had a beginning
something had to start it
we call that something God

 

[Jamie Gigliotti]

A cause for what exactly? The universe may have had a beginning but no one knows the state of existence before that so no one can possibly know what caused the formation of the universe.

Claiming to know what is unknown is unreasonable QED.

If you think it's reasonable to think there is an infinity of cause and effect with not primordial uncaused phenomena, then God bless you, but the facts are most think that is unreasonable.

 

[gcthomas]

we don't claim to know
even your accusations are unreasonable

entropy tells us the universe had a beginning
something had to start it
we call that something God

What does giving an unknown event a name do when you have no understanding of its nature? How does that give you any more understanding than we have?

 

[chrysostom]

What does giving an unknown event a name do when you have no understanding of its nature? How does that give you any more understanding than we have?

entropy is a scientific term which you should know about

are you pretending not to know about it?

it does support our position

 

[False Prophet]

You mean "exercising faith" where faith is merely a confession and not a practicing way of life.

 

[gcthomas]

entropy is a scientific term which you should know about

are you pretending not to know about it?

it does support our position

If the universe started with one on Linde's chaotic inflation bubbles, as it seems it did, then being so compact it is likely to have had very low entropy.

Should I call the inflation bubble God? Not very personal, I know, but if it makes you happy...

 

[Hedshaker]

we don't claim to know
even your accusations are unreasonable

Pot kettle black!

entropy tells us the universe had a beginning
something had to start it

You aren't paying attention, are you? The universe may well have had a beginning but no one knows the state of existence before then. Therefore no one, including you, can possibly know what caused its formation. But it is reasonable to assume something natural since we have never encountered anything other. QED

Do keep up. Repeating oneself gets tedious quickly.

we call that something God

Maybe a giant toe nail did it, maybe the flying spaghetti monster did it. You can call it what you want but you still don't know. No one does and no one can. That's why it's called unknown.

You are engaging in the
Fallacy of opposition . You are right because you say you are right, therefore anyone in opposition must be wrong by default.

This is a fallacy and is also unreasonable.

You can believe whatever you want but without evidence that does not make your belief any more reasonable than anyone else's suggestion.

 

[Hedshaker]

Just as finding all the answers in science is nonsense.

Well good luck with the prayer if you ever get seriously sick. Don't want to be bothered with that nasty science, do we? :think:

 

[chrysostom]

Maybe a giant toe nail did it, maybe the flying spaghetti monster did it.

that would be unreasonable

you continue to come up with what is unreasonable

calling it a necessary uncaused cause is reasonable
and
science proves that

 

[Hedshaker]

If you think it's reasonable to think there is an infinity of cause and effect with not primordial uncaused phenomena, then God bless you, but the facts are most think that is unreasonable.

Quantum Physics tells us that our intuition is far from reliable when it comes to understanding the deeper side of reality.

And also, please check, I did not say there is an infinity of cause and effects. That would be your straw man, which I do not appreciate. I implied, no one knows the state of existence before the Big Bang.

And I'm betting that if science ever does discover what caused the formation of the universe it will not only be something natural but far stranger than anyone's religious beliefs. Though I seriously doubt it will be in my life time so I don't worry about it.

 

[Hedshaker]

that would be unreasonable

Why is a giant toe nail or the flying spaghetti monster less reasonable that an invisible disembodied mind?

you continue to come up with what is

Pot kettle black

calling it a necessary uncaused cause is reasonable
and
science proves that

Lol, I'm afraid science is most definitely not on your side.

How come you didn't address the rest of my post. Please address this part if you are not too cowardly:

You are engaging in the
Fallacy of opposition . You are right because you say you are right, therefore anyone in opposition must be wrong by default.


From the link:

A fallacy of opposition occurs when someone assumes that (a) those who disagree with (oppose) you must be wrong and not thinking straight or (b) "I would not believe something that is not true; I believe [this]; therefore, [this] must be true."

Though knowledge of reality cannot be certain, the fallacy of opposition makes people certain that they are privy to the unknowns of the universe. Even those who are the most confident in their opinions can be totally wrong, and their opponents can be right.

The fallacy is essentially circular logic; the argument properly breaks down to "I am right, because I am right."

Carrying this ideology through to its conclusion would make someone totally impervious to the outside world; lower levels of the fallacy of opposition result in a closed mind.