Filipinos Seek Miracles From Statue

[jsanford108]

Idolatry is treating an object as a deity, or attributing supernatural powers to it.

Bowing to statue is not idolatry.
Believing that touching a statue will cure you is idolatry.

The Catholic Church wants to keep their laity drunk off it's own grandeur, so they encourage these superstitions.

So touching an image or physical item is idolatry. So what about the woman who touched Christ's garment? What about the cloth of Elijah being sent to heal the sick? What about items blessed by the apostles being sent to heal others? What about the Jews looking to the snake on the cross, simply looking at it, for healing? Are these all acts of idolatry?


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[Crucible]

So touching an image or physical item is idolatry. So what about the woman who touched Christ's garment? What about the cloth of Elijah being sent to heal the sick? What about items blessed by the apostles being sent to heal others? What about the Jews looking to the snake on the cross, simply looking at it, for healing? Are these all acts of idolatry?

What is an act of idolatry according to you? Nothing, apparently.

God made specific instructions in the OT, and ordained by God.

What instructions have you been given to receive healing from a statue, or to believe blood is seeping out the eyes of one?
What you all are, are fanatics- and your popes are you all's enablers.

Watching the terminally ill go on those pilgrimages and all die, while you praise God for that one guy who pulls through- there's a reason why those things do not happen anywhere except in out in the 2nd and 3rd Worlds, because it would otherwise be shown for what it is- a sham.

 

[serpentdove]

Please describe how the mass is wicked?

They bow down to a false christ (Matt. 24:4-5, 24). linger:

What makes your point interesting is that Satanists have a ball mass, which is a "perversion of the catholic mass." So why would a Satanist blaspheme something that is already blasphemous?

Satan loves Catholicism (Jud 11) and Satanism (Lk 4:6–8; 2 Thess 2:3, 4). He doesn’t care which lie you believe.

That doesn't make logical or rational sense. Would they not promote the catholic mass if it is already wicked, rather than oppose it?

They probably think that Catholics are Christians.

 

[jsanford108]

What is an act of idolatry according to you? Nothing, apparently.

What you all are, are fanatics- and your popes are you all's enablers.

Idolatry is the worship of an image or an alternate deity. Easy definition. No catholic worships images. No catholic worships statues. These are all claims made against Catholicism, but there is no evidence for it.

 

[jsanford108]

They bow down to a false christ (Matt. 24:4-5, 24). linger:

Satan loves Catholicism (Jud 11) and Satanism (Lk 4:6–8; 2 Thess 2:3, 4). He doesn’t care which lie you believe.

They probably think that Catholics are Christians.

Matthew 24: They will come saying, I am Christ.
No Catholic has said they are Christ. There is no Catholic doctrine that says "The Church is Christ."

Satanism is about "Destroying the Chruch (Catholic)" (taken from the Satanic Handbook). Interesting that actual Satanists disagree with you. Seems counter productive on their part. Especially since their goal is to destroy the Catholic Church. Almost sounds a lot like the gates of hell trying to prevail against the Church....

Also, the first churches, depending on if you ask an Orthodox or a Roman Catholic, was Catholic/Orthodox. Both still include the other as being legitimate founders. So, the first Christians were Catholics (Orthodox or Roman). How can any denomination, which splits off of these, be the first Christian denomination? There is a flaw in logic there. As the physical law goes, something cannot come from nothing. Even Christianity had a root source; Judaism. Christ came along, thus birthing Christianity out of Judaism. So, if the first group of people professing the Gospel were Catholics, how could they not be Christian? It would make more sense if a denomination which split from Catholicism were not Christian, but the reverse is an impossible feat, logically, rationally, reasonably, and truthfully.

 

[Crucible]

Idolatry is the worship of an image or an alternate deity. Easy definition. No catholic worships images. No catholic worships statues. These are all claims made against Catholicism, but there is no evidence for it.

Holy water, dolls that heal, statues that cry blood- all these consecrated objects and supernatural idols that are venerated..

It's idolatry. I mean come on now

Martin Luther slammed your church for consistently choosing idolatry over intercession- the thing is, your church just didn't care. It was drunk on it's own gourd and now just makes up technicalities to keep doing as they do :wave2:

 

[jsanford108]

Holy water, dolls that heal, statues that cry blood- all these consecrated objects and supernatural idols that are venerated..

It's idolatry. I mean come on now

Martin Luther slammed your church for consistently choosing idolatry over intercession- the thing is, your church just didn't care. It was drunk on it's own gourd and now just makes up technicalities to keep doing as they do :wave2:

A statue or image is not an idol. Is the Statue of Liberty an idol? Or the pictures in your house? By your logic, to even look fondly at one, thinking of the people or ideas they represent, is idolatrous. Veneration is not worship. Idolatry is a worshipful relationship. You are interchanging terminology to fit your argument.

Martin Luther is the worst example of a person you could have used. One of the first things he did was alter verses and add to them so that they fit his doctrines. When I was a Protestant, I despised Martin Luther. All he did was make false accusations and create his own doctrines. He was a hypocrite. He did have maybe one or two good points, which did need to be addressed. However, splitting and spewing hatred is not the way to mend issues.


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[Crucible]

A statue or image is not an idol. Is the Statue of Liberty an idol? Or the pictures in your house? By your logic, to even look fondly at one, thinking of the people or ideas they represent, is idolatrous. Veneration is not worship. Idolatry is a worshipful relationship. You are interchanging terminology to fit your argument.

There's a reason the rest of Abrahamic religion does not do even haf of what your church does. It's idolatry, plain and simple- the Patriarchs would not allow what your church does for a second.

Martin Luther is the worst example of a person you could have used. One of the first things he did was alter verses and add to them so that they fit his doctrines. When I was a Protestant, I despised Martin Luther. All he did was make false accusations and create his own doctrines. He was a hypocrite. He did have maybe one or two good points, which did need to be addressed. However, splitting and spewing hatred is not the way to mend issues.

According to what, other than hearsay? Your church adds and takes out entire books, and add and deletes scripture all the time. Because they are 'vicars'- you pretty much just chose for your authority to be the Catholic Church.

Though I doubt what you say about your affiliations are true- you were either always Catholic and never Protestant, or simply just anti-Protestant railing against your own communion.
Someone actually going from Protestant to Catholic is a rarity, because you don't just go in one day and come out converted

 

[jsanford108]

There's a reason the rest of Abrahamic religion does not do even haf of what your church does. It's idolatry, plain and simple- the Patriarchs would not allow what your church does for a second.



According to what, other than hearsay? Your church adds and takes out entire books, and add and deletes scripture all the time. Because they are 'vicars'- you pretty much just chose for your authority to be the Catholic Church.

Though I doubt what you say about your affiliations are true- you were either always Catholic and never Protestant, or simply just anti-Protestant railing against your own communion.
Someone actually going from Protestant to Catholic is a rarity, because you don't just go in one day and come out converted

I was a devout southern baptist. I was studying the Bible, bought Systematic Theology, and studied them side by side. Time and again, I kept seeing a glaring hypocrisy and contradiction between doctrines and what the Bible actually says. It was then I took a theology class. They dismissed any kind of catholic doctrine. But as I decided to research it, I found that all catholic doctrines were in perfect unison with what the Bible said.
Reading and studying the Bible made me catholic. It took about three months to realize I should become catholic. Another 6 months taking RCIA before I "became" catholic.

Provide an example of Catholics adding or subtracting from Scripture. I assure you, it was Luther on who added and subtracted to the Scriptures.

My sources on Martin Luther are "Making of the West" (2008), "World History" (2008), and "Western Civilization" (2008) by Hunt-Martin, Spielvogel, Spielvogel. As well as a series of his personal letters, available on Google.


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[musterion]

I was a devout southern baptist. I was studying the Bible, bought Systematic Theology, and studied them side by side. Time and again, I kept seeing a glaring hypocrisy and contradiction between doctrines and what the Bible actually says. It was then I took a theology class. They dismissed any kind of catholic doctrine. But as I decided to research it, I found that all catholic doctrines were in perfect unison with what the Bible said.
Reading and studying the Bible made me catholic. It took about three months to realize I should become catholic. Another 6 months taking RCIA before I "became" catholic.

Provide an example of Catholics adding or subtracting from Scripture. I assure you, it was Luther on who added and subtracted to the Scriptures.

My sources on Martin Luther are "Making of the West" (2008), "World History" (2008), and "Western Civilization" (2008) by Hunt-Martin, Spielvogel, Spielvogel. As well as a series of his personal letters, available on Google.


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Too bad you didn't meet a consistent dispensationalist who could have explained to you where So.Bapts. went wrong and save you from an even graver error.

(I'm ex-IFB)

 

[jsanford108]

Too bad you didn't meet a consistent dispensationalist who could have explained to you where So.Bapts. went wrong and save you from an even graver error.

(I'm ex-IFB)

Dispensationalists are even more far removed than most older denominations.


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[musterion]

Yep, it's really too bad.

 

[Crucible]

It takes like a month to become Catholic if you're already knowledgeable of Catholicism. The whole waiting until Easter and whatnot is something largely of teenagers and people who just don't have any theological inclination.

I know this because I was one plank away from being converted, and immediately got swept away by some crazy events that you wouldn't believe even if I told you :chuckle:
And which are beside the point.

The truth is that I just don't trust anyone who says they were a devout non-Catholic turned Catholic, especially when they claim to have all the knowledge of a priest and pastor, all wrapped up into a pogo stick, to go pound on others

 

[musterion]

Jesuits are old masters at infiltration.

 

[serpentdove]

No Catholic has said they are Christ...

Do they bow to a wafer god? :smokie: Acts 17:29

 

[serpentdove]

...I just don't trust anyone who says they were a devout non-Catholic turned Catholic...

2 Co 6:17

 

[jsanford108]

It takes like a month to become Catholic if you're already knowledgeable of Catholicism. The whole waiting until Easter and whatnot is something largely of teenagers and people who just don't have any theological inclination.

I know this because I was one plank away from being converted, and immediately got swept away by some crazy events that you wouldn't believe even if I told you :chuckle:
And which are beside the point.

The truth is that I just don't trust anyone who says they were a devout non-Catholic turned Catholic, especially when they claim to have all the knowledge of a priest and pastor, all wrapped up into a pogo stick, to go pound on others

Like Tim Staples, Jimmy Akin, Stephen Ray....the list goes on.


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[jsanford108]

Do they bow to a wafer god? :smokie: Acts 17:29

Oh Ye of little faith.

Did you want to actually discuss the Lord's Supper or just try and make little jokes rooted in falsehoods?


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[Tambora]

A statue or image is not an idol.

Then tell us what idols look like?

Is the Statue of Liberty an idol? Or the pictures in your house?

No.
Neither are paraded through the streets as a religious festival and looked upon to bestow miracles.

By your logic, to even look fondly at one, thinking of the people or ideas they represent, is idolatrous.

Nope.

Veneration is not worship. Idolatry is a worshipful relationship. You are interchanging terminology to fit your argument.

Because it does fit.
Unless you think all those pagans were not venerating their idols.
One can certainly venerate something that is not an idol, but idols are definitely venerated very highly.

 

[Angel4Truth]

Leviticus 26:1
You shall not make for yourselves idols, nor shall you set up for yourselves an image or a sacred pillar, nor shall you place a figured stone in your land to bow down to it; for I am the LORD your God.