Feminism

[Nimrod]

it simply means that she will desire him above God and he will rule over her instead of being ruled by God.

I wonder what woman preacher did you hear this from.

 

[annabenedetti]

I find it a bit interesting that so many seem to object to feminism in a way that say that it is a culturally contingent objection to sacred writings. A historical and social study of the period and culture surrounding the New Testament communities show that those texts are basically just reaffirming the gender patterns of that culture and age. Nor is the view on women consistent between the different writings of the Bible, not even just the New Testament.

They were surrounded by patriarchal structures. There is nothing wrong with, in fact it is commendable, to criticize many of those structures today. They are based upon views of women that are simply false (severely outdated hellenistic "biology"). That being said, I do not think that recognizing that men and women are in some areas different, but not in extreme ways. I have no issue with women ministers for example, they are just as good ministers as men are.

Well said and I agree.

 

[annabenedetti]

you only see what you want to see
you are afraid of being controlled
but
it is okay
if
the feminists control you

Feminists don't control me.

However, you wish you could control me.

 

[Rusha]

Feminists don't control me.

However, you wish you could control me.

THAT is exactly it.

 

[Desert Reign]

I find it a bit interesting that so many seem to object to feminism in a way that say that it is a culturally contingent objection to sacred writings. A historical and social study of the period and culture surrounding the New Testament communities show that those texts are basically just reaffirming the gender patterns of that culture and age. Nor is the view on women consistent between the different writings of the Bible, not even just the New Testament.

They were surrounded by patriarchal structures. There is nothing wrong with, in fact it is commendable, to criticize many of those structures today. They are based upon views of women that are simply false (severely outdated hellenistic "biology"). That being said, I do not think that recognizing that men and women are in some areas different, but not in extreme ways. I have no issue with women ministers for example, they are just as good ministers as men are.

Do you really think that ancient Greek and Roman culture was so very different from ours or that 21st century society is the first one that has ever understood how different women and men are? It is a fallacy I have seen so many times that we can somehow excuse away our own culture because it happens to be more modern (sort of obvious really...) and we can always criticise those horrible people with their primitive mentality (and who conveniently aren't around to defend themselves...)

Human nature hasn't changed one jot in 2000 years. It is when you understand this that you will be able to make a start on understanding the cultures of the New Testament period. It is when you begin with respect for those peoples, that they weren't just a bunch of idiot primitives, and that they were human beings with exactly the same nature as you, that you will make real sense of the New Testament. Until then, and as demonstrated more than sufficiently by your patronising verbiage above, you will not understand the New Testament at all.

 

[annabenedetti]

Do you really think that ancient Greek and Roman culture was so very different from ours or that 21st century society is the first one that has ever understood how different women and men are? It is a fallacy I have seen so many times that we can somehow excuse away our own culture because it happens to be more modern (sort of obvious really...) and we can always criticise those horrible people with their primitive mentality (and who conveniently aren't around to defend themselves...)

Human nature hasn't changed one jot in 2000 years. It is when you understand this that you will be able to make a start on understanding the cultures of the New Testament period. It is when you begin with respect for those peoples, that they weren't just a bunch of idiot primitives, and that were human beings with exactly the same nature as you, that you will make real sense of the New Testament. Until then, and as demonstrated more than sufficiently by your patronising verbiage above, you will not understand the New Testament at all.

I didn't read him as patronizing at all. Human nature hasn't changed, true; but societal behavior certainly has, and depending to whom you're speaking that's either good, bad, or a mixed bag.

 

[Rusha]

the feminists control the democratic party
the unions pay the bill

:yawn: It's always about your ridiculous republican party and unions for you.

THIS is my statement in regards to feminism, what parts I support and WHY it exists.

http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3970572&postcount=4

Any responses (accusations) that do not address my initial response are nothing more than dishonest, angry rhetoric and not worth addressing.

 

[Skybringr]

Feminism is simple:

Dicing out all the unwanted responsibilities of women and stealing the wanted ones from men.

~feminism~

It's expected by women to be spoiled and carried and pretend that they have grave inequalities- and that nothing in this statement I true. :chuckle:

 

[annabenedetti]

Feminism is simple:

Dicing out all the unwanted responsibilities of women and stealing the wanted ones from men.

~feminism~

It's expected by women to be spoiled.

~Aren't you the guy who decked his wife?~

 

[The 5 solas]

I find it a bit interesting that so many seem to object to feminism in a way that say that it is a culturally contingent objection to sacred writings.

The reason I would object is because I do not believe the cultural argument to be a valid one. The starting point has to first be, that one believes the Bible to be the inspired Word of God. If that is rejected, then anything I say will not be accepted. However, if one does believe that the Bible is the inspired Word of God, then consider this.

This is what a woman should do....

1 Timothy 2:11,12
Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness.
I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.

This is the reason why....

1 Timothy 2:13,14
For Adam was formed first, then Eve;
and Adam was not deceived,
but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor.

It is order of creation and then of the fall.
The reason is not cultural, although of course it follows that the culture around them would reflect this teaching. To keep pointing back to culture though is to ignore the reason given by Paul, inspired through the Holy Spirit, which is the order of creation.

 

[Skybringr]

~Aren't you the guy who decked his wife?~

I've never decked a woman in my life, though I doubt we'd even be having this conversation right now it was never a virtue not to hit women. After all, they would then know what equality was and thus wouldn't want it!

They would learn the very rudimentary things, like minding one's tongue for example :chuckle:

 

[IMJerusha]

I saw this being discussed within another thread and thought it would be interesting to get it out in the open, so others can participate as well.

People seem to have varying definitions of what feminism is, in their minds and how they apply it to their lives. I would be interested to hear some of the various views by the men and women of this forum and how they live it out.

I am personally opposed to the secular concept of feminism and what is being pushed in our society. It is representative of a lust for power, usurping of authority and emasculation of the men. It has helped destroy the family unit by making women dissatisfied with their roles as wives and mothers, leading to the disintegration of society overall.

For me, it is a matter of equality with role distinctions, as laid out in the Scriptures.

Well, I guess we have more in common than salmon!

God gave women parameters and for some crazy reason, we think they are belittling when, in fact, women are so highly honored by God. It seems to me that feminism is all about being dissatisfied with the place God has set aside for us and is the typical female reaction to man's (literally) failure to be obedient to God's place for him. In my estimation, there is nothing more wonderful or more flattering, more honoring, more fulfilling or more sexy than a man who upholds God's Headship. A man who knows who he is under God and what his duties are under God is priceless. I seriously doubt feminism would exist if more men grasped that.

 

[annabenedetti]

I've never decked a woman in my life, though I doubt we'd even be having this conversation right now it was never a virtue not to hit women. After all, they would then know what equality was and thus wouldn't want it!

They would learn the very rudimentary things, like minding one's tongue for example :chuckle:

Oh, that's right... you deebo'd her.

When she's beating up on him and he gets tired of it and deebos her to the floor.

~overzealous~

 

[Skybringr]

Oh, that's right... you deebo'd her.

Yeah, I wasn't talking about myself.

But
Imagine if you were a man and you approached me with this utter lie. You would expect that hostility might ensue but because you are a female you have no intention of actually keeping that mouth shut.

It's hilarious, really. Being a punk is based on perspective, I suppose.

 

[Nimrod]

I wish to see women empowered so they never feel they have to stay in a relationship

Translation: I will vote for any measure that will use the state as my personal thug to extract money from the man.


Feminism wants more power, less responsibility. Notice the key word "empowered" above. How does one get that? For most responsible people, they earn it. Feminist get it by changing the laws and having them enforced on the man.

 

[Skybringr]

Translation: I will vote for any measure that will use the state as my personal thug to extract money from the man.


Feminism wants more power, less responsibility. Notice the key word "empowered" above. How does one get that? For most responsible people, they earn it. Feminist get it by changing the laws and having them enforced on the man.

They don't want equality, they want equal results. They really say that being female is a handicap, but dress it up as men being tyrants.
Feminism is just a big ball of nonsense. It doesn't do women any justice, a real woman strives to be a proper woman- the one's that don't get married multiple times and blame everything on men; the one's that give men their sacred, exclusive right as leaders.

 

[Rusha]

Translation

Any responses (accusations) that do not address my initial response (post #4) are nothing more than dishonest, angry rhetoric and not worth addressing.

 

[annabenedetti]

Yeah, I wasn't talking about myself.

But
Imagine if you were a man and you approached me with this utter lie. You would expect that hostility might ensue but because you are a female you have no intention of actually keeping that mouth shut.

It's hilarious, really. Being a punk is based on perspective, I suppose.

You should have said so at the time. Both Angel and I referred to you in that thread and you didn't correct either one of us then. Why not?

It's called a women acting like a lunatic and because the man didn't let her have her way he's a 'wife beater'.

A man owning up to shoving a women blocking his way from an exit and screaming in his face is "physical abuse".
So yes, I have to say 'shrugging'.

Maybe you should marinate on that for a little bit; maybe notice the fantastic irony of this entire discussion and how it applies to your standing.

You shoved her because she was blocking your way. What was the "overzealous" part?

When she's beating up on him and he gets tired of it and deebos her to the floor.

~overzealous~

So you beat her to the floor.

There have been plenty of men whose wife acts like a lunatic and attacks him verbally and physically, relentlessly, and the man loses his temper and throws her away across the room.
I've seen it, and witnesses both male and female didn't seem to mind. If there were none, and this went to court however..

Does this warrant an assault charge? Losing their kids and their livelihood?

No, it doesn't. I'll tell you what it does warrant- an enlightenment on what constitutes 'physical abuse'.

 

[Skybringr]

You should have said so at the time. Both Angel and I referred to you in that thread and you didn't correct either one of us then. Why not?

Said what?
What I said was clear, what you all say usually amounts to a bunch of stupid drivel. Wouldn't surprise me one bit if you two tried to straw man my posts to that extent. I probably just started to ignore you two, like what I'm close to doing with you now.

 

[annabenedetti]

Said what?
What I said was clear, what you all say usually amounts to a bunch of stupid drivel. I probably just started to ignore you two, like what I'm close to doing with you now.

What you didn't say was that it wasn't yourself you were talking about.

You go right ahead and ignore me, I won't miss you a bit.