Fast Food workers protest and demand more money.

[The Barbarian]

Of course unemployment doesn't rise when employers willingly pay higher wages, nimrod.

The issue is when they are forced to do so and can't afford it without cutting hours or losing employees.

That's a testable claim. Let's take a look at the historical record.

Here's a graph of the minimum wage, low wage employee unemployment, and general unemployment. The argument is that when the minimum wage goes up, minimum wage earners are laid off. If this is true, there should be proprotionately more unemployment for those workers than for the population generally.

Instead, we see that low-wage unemployment closely follows the general unemployment, and doesn't follow minimum wage at all. In fact, as you see, low-wage unemployment was lower when the real minimum wage was higher.

Now we all understand that you're not the brightest guy in the world, and you are suspicious of any math that goes beyond what you can do without taking off your shoes.

But there it is.

 

[The Barbarian]

Barbarian, regarding paying more than a survival-level wage:
it's a good thing because it has a good effect on the economy.

At what dollar amount does it have a negative effect on the economy?

That's like asking "how much should you pull back on the yoke of an airplane?" The answer is "depends what the airplane is doing at the time." If this confuses you, we've located your problem.

According to you, the higher the minimum wage, the better things are for everyone.

No, and it's hard for me to believe you're really dumb enough to think so, although it could be true.

So, how high should the minimum wage be taken to?

It's like flying an airplane. Depends on what the economy is doing at the time. I understand you'd like to have simpler answer that you could understand.

But reality is not obliged to be understandable for you.

 

[resurrected]

oh boy


now we've got barbie all riled up



trying to divert attention from being caught in a lie in that other thread, no doubt

good one barbie!

 

[Skybringr]

Fast food workers want to make a fast buck!

Anyone who thinks fast food is a career unless you are management is missing some facts.

As you stated the free market system works well.

Demanding wages not earned is greed

You apparently haven't noticed the state our economy, or realized that not everybody can work in better jobs because the one's with them take them all, or how hard and exhausting it is to work 40 hours a week in a busy, hot grease shop just to pick up a check barely worth it's weight in paper.

 

[Balerion the Black]

At what dollar amount does it have a negative effect on the economy?

$15.00 an hour?

$20.00 an hour?

$30.00 an hour?

$50.00 an hour?

According to you, the higher the minimum wage, the better things are for everyone. So, how high should the minimum wage be taken to?

The only thing your "argument" shows is that you are incapable of seeing things in any way other than all or nothing, one extreme or another. Though since you seem to let your pastor/Fox news/the Koch Brothers do all of your thinking for you, I'm not exactly surprised.

 

[Skybringr]

The minimum wage in my state is $7.25.
And I think that's just sad.

There was a time when you could go to the grocery store with 20 dollars and do a basket some justice. Now you can barely fill a bag.
I think people all against an increase in MW need to let these sort of things sink in.

 

[Daniel1611]

I don't agree with the Unbiblical economic system we have. But if we must have it, then everyone who works should earn a living wage. Not a minimum wage. If we can give trillions of dollars to big business, politicians, foreign countries, bankers, the oil industry and people who don't work, then we can afford to pay a living wage for all working people.

 

[Lighthouse]

That's a testable claim. Let's take a look at the historical record.

Here's a graph of the minimum wage, low wage employee unemployment, and general unemployment. The argument is that when the minimum wage goes up, minimum wage earners are laid off. If this is true, there should be proprotionately more unemployment for those workers than for the population generally.

Instead, we see that low-wage unemployment closely follows the general unemployment, and doesn't follow minimum wage at all. In fact, as you see, low-wage unemployment was lower when the real minimum wage was higher.

Now we all understand that you're not the brightest guy in the world, and you are suspicious of any math that goes beyond what you can do without taking off your shoes.

But there it is.

Raising the minimum wage has more of a tendency to increase underemployment than unemployment.

And the fact that you think minimum wage and low wage employees are the only ones affected by an increase in minimum wage you're an idiot; but we already knew you were.

The minimum wage in my state is $7.25.
And I think that's just sad.

There was a time when you could go to the grocery store with 20 dollars and do a basket some justice. Now you can barely fill a bag.
I think people all against an increase in MW need to let these sort of things sink in.

If you think an increase in minimum wage is the way to fix that you're drowning in ignorance.

 

[99lamb]

The minimum wage in my state is $7.25.
And I think that's just sad.

There was a time when you could go to the grocery store with 20 dollars and do a basket some justice. Now you can barely fill a bag.
I think people all against an increase in MW need to let these sort of things sink in.

how does the business owner effect the deterioration of the buying power of the dollar?
you would think that the government printing money, would be the cause for the erosion of dollar.

 

[Skybringr]

If you think an increase in minimum wage is the way to fix that you're drowning in ignorance.

Why? Because it might mean the wealthy may have to spend vacation like a normal human being?

Amazing how a country who is bartering with Monopoly money should be so greedy within itself.

 

[99lamb]

I don't agree with the Unbiblical economic system we have. But if we must have it, then everyone who works should earn a living wage. Not a minimum wage. If we can give trillions of dollars to big business, politicians, foreign countries, bankers, the oil industry and people who don't work, then we can afford to pay a living wage for all working people.

would you agree with Jesus when he gave the example of the workers Matthew 20:1-16

8 “When evening came, the owner of the vineyard said to his foreman, ‘Call the workers and pay them their wages, beginning with the last ones hired and going on to the first.’

9 “The workers who were hired about five in the afternoon came and each received a denarius. 10 So when those came who were hired first, they expected to receive more. But each one of them also received a denarius. 11 When they received it, they began to grumble against the landowner. 12 ‘These who were hired last worked only one hour,’ they said, ‘and you have made them equal to us who have borne the burden of the work and the heat of the day.’

13 “But he answered one of them, ‘I am not being unfair to you, friend. Didn’t you agree to work for a denarius? 14 Take your pay and go. I want to give the one who was hired last the same as I gave you. 15 Don’t I have the right to do what I want with my own money? Or are you envious because I am generous?’
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew 20:1-16

Who is forcing the workers at McD to work there?
Doesn't the owner have a right to pay people the wage he sets, as it is his money?

 

[Lighthouse]

Why? Because it might mean the wealthy may have to spend vacation like a normal human being?

Amazing how a country who is bartering with Monopoly money should be so greedy within itself.

You are simplifying to a stupefying degree. There is a lot more to the issue than the amount the lowest paid among us are making. And it's going to take a lot more than an increase in their pay to make a lasting change.

In fact, if all the other things are actually taken care of an increase will be unnecessary.

 

[quip]

A mandatory minimum wage is self-defeating; it's a losing battle. Otherwise they wouldn't need to keep increasing it.

:loser:ighthouse

Giving Lighthouse an annual raise is self-defeating; it's a losing battle. Otherwise he wouldn't need to keep increasing it. lain:

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

burger flipping's a great entry level job for unskilled inexperienced kids


they should pay to get the experience

Can we pay you to stay off TOL, at least, 24/7? LOL!!

 

[Skybringr]

Giving Lighthouse an annual raise is self-defeating; it's a losing battle. Otherwise he wouldn't need to keep increasing it. lain:

:up:
The problem with America is it's hidden aristocracy. The one who controls the money is greater then a king.

 

[rexlunae]

That's a testable claim. Let's take a look at the historical record.

In another thread, I went through all of the instances where we raised the minimum wage, and determined the double-delta, i.e. the change in the rate of change of the unemployment rate. And you know what? Exactly half of the time, when we raise the minimum wage, the double-delta was positive. And the other half of the time, it was negative.

Minimum wage does not cause unemployment in any evident way.

 

[Skybringr]

The conservative right simply just make excuses sometimes.

The problem is extremely simple, and the whole world knows it: ~yall greedy~

 

[tetelestai]

The only thing your "argument" shows is that you are incapable of seeing things in any way other than all or nothing, one extreme or another.

IOW, you can't answer the question.

Neither can Barbarian.

Funny how you guys want the minimum wage increased, but none of you can tell us how much it should be increased to, nor can you guys tell us at what point it hurts the economy.

Though since you seem to let your pastor/Fox news/the Koch Brothers do all of your thinking for you, I'm not exactly surprised.

That's pretty funny.

Does that mean that Charles Darwin,Karl Marx, Aleister Crowley/MSNBC News/George Soros does all your thinking for you?

 

[Granite]

It's so bad in this country, that's why millions come here from other countries.

Which has nothing to do with anything we're talking about.

Have you ever been to a third world country? Have you even ever been out of this country? (not counting Canada)

Yes. And again, it has nothing to do with what we're talking about.

Your socialism/communism/Marxism doesn't work. It hasn't come close to working ever.

What the hell are you babbling about, anyway?:kookoo:

There will always be poor people. Jesus even tells us so.

Mmm, yes. I remember that bit, also remember thinking as a kid: "That also means there will always be rich people. And he criticized the rich constantly, so..."

Your socialism/communism/Marxism...

Okay, seriously. What the hell. I know you're a Steelers fan and thus extra dim by nature, but this entire post of yours was idiotic, pure and simple.

 

[Granite]

Funny how the people who should be most opposed to the exploitative tactics of big business are the same suckers who cheerlead it. Almost seems like big business can't be cheap, greedy, or cruel enough for some folks.