Does God know the future?

[Hasan_ibn_Sabah]

Pharoah was already inclined to evil. God just hardened his heart by withdrawing his grace from pharoah and letting him go about his evil end.

We all are inclined towards evil, the absence of good is inherent in human nature.

 

[nancy]

knight, God created our human free will, we didn't. That's all my statement says.

 

[nancy]

Clete, you are also making the presumption that observing from the eternity is observing everything as if it were the past whereas eternity is a mode of existence without beginning, end or succession; the whole and perfect simultaneous possesion of limitless life.

 

[nancy]

One last difficult concept is that we observe existence as "done existence." That is existence is what we observe through our senses as a priori.

God's knowing is God's doing etc. He we experince "doing existence." It's a compeltely different point of view as existence itself is deoendant on God.

 

[Hasan_ibn_Sabah]

Well there ya have it folks God is evil!

God is not evil. We are.

Your theology is wicked and perverse and you should be ashamed of yourself. Your theology causes you to convict God of the most heinous evils for all of history.

Unlike us, God takes responsibility for His creation.

Here are some Bible quotes, and remember we are to take the Bible at face value, like you said:

"I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace [good], and create evil: I the Lord do all these things"

" ... an experience of evil hath God given to the sons of man to humble him thereby"

"Out of the mouth of the most High proceedeth not evil and good?"

" ... I have created the waster to destroy."

"The LORD hath made all things for Himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil."

" ... Thus said the Lord; Behold, I frame evil against you, and devise a device against you ... "

"What? shall we receive good at the hand of God and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips."


[QUOTE}God has asked me to defend His name against knuckle-heads such as yourself.{/QUOTE}

That's kinda arrogant. Since when does God need anyone? God can defend Himself just fine.

 

[kmoney]

Clete,

Matthew 16:28
Assuredly, I say to you, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.

Just a thought on this quickly....
I don't think this applies because Jesus said that only the Father knows the time that Jesus will come back. I think it is clear that Jesus, Paul, and probably all the apostles and disciples thought Jesus would return ALOT sooner than this. I don't think this was a prophecy per se. If so than that prophecy was void because He said Himself that he didn't know when He would return, only the Father knows the time.

Kevin

 

[fool]

Well there ya have it folks God is evil!

Your theology is wicked and perverse and you should be ashamed of yourself. Your theology causes you to convict God of the most heinous evils for all of history.

God has asked me to defend His name against knuckle-heads such as yourself.

James 1:13 Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone. 14 But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. 15 Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death.

Isaiah 5:20 Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil; Who put darkness for light, and light for darkness; Who put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

how do you make the words real big like that?

 

[Clete]

So what you are implying is that the Bible contadicts itself, becuase you are using James 1 to contradict Romans 9

Romans 9 does not contradict it, your interpretation of it does which is evidence that your interpretation of it is wrong. If you would like to know what Romans 9 is really teaching read this...

Romans 9

 

[kmoney]

Clete,

I am not saying that it would effect the future, I am not saying that God's knowledge is causative.

The syllogism you offered is exactly right. It is not only valid (logically) but it is sound (i.e. all the premises are true therefore the conclusion must also be true). If you reject the conclusion you must do so at the expense of at least one of the premises. You've already agreed that premise one is correct but have rejected the conclusion. You are at this point required to reject either premise 2 or premise 3, which will it be?

Which will it be? Neither. I stand by my conclusion that we can still have free will with 1), 2), & 3) being true....Like I said before, I just don't see the lack of free will as following from God knowing the future. You see it otherwise.

Generally yes, this is what I believe.

ok

There is not one prophecy in the Book of Revelation that absolutely must come to pass.

So the antichrist may never come?

It is not necessary for God to have every minute detail of the future worked out in order for Him to announce an intended plan.

I agree, and as far as I know I never said otherwise.

As if Jonah's prophecy wouldn't be enough to prove the point, right?

Knight asked the same thing and I responded....look if you care

I'll give you two more...

What generosity!!!

No, not at all. It has been proven repeatedly to be a sham.

I'm also skeptical, espeically by the prophecies.

Do you believe that is appropriate for you to ask a Father to be involved in his children's lives? I do, so the answer to this one is, yes.

Sure I believe it is appropriate to ask God to be involve din my children's lives.That isn't exactly what I meant though, but you answered it in the next few sentences.

How would you feel about how your children turned out if they had to come to you before making any important decision? Wouldn't that indicate that you had failed to teach them what they needed to live their lives?

Situation....someone asks God if they should take job A or job B. They ask God what His will is in this situation. You feel this is good? bad? or doesn't really matter?

Kevin

 

[kmoney]

how do you make the words real big like that?

There is a font size drop down box.

See now my words are BIG.....

now my words are small....

 

[Clete]

Clete,


Which will it be? Neither. I stand by my conclusion that we can still have free will with 1), 2), & 3) being true....Like I said before, I just don't see the lack of free will as following from God knowing the future. You see it otherwise.

How I see it is irrelivent. The fact of the matter is that you are being contradictory. You are in effect say that freedom is both the ability and the inability to do or to do otherwise at the same time and in the same relationship. That is a violation of the law of non-contradiction. Your position is irrational.

So the antichrist may never come?

This is not likely but possible yes, so says Jeremiah.

I agree, and as far as I know I never said otherwise.

Good deal! :thumb:

Knight asked the same thing and I responded....look if you care

I saw it a few momments ago. And that's all good as long as you weren't blowing the Jonah prophecy off, which it doesn't seem to be what you were doing.

Situation....someone asks God if they should take job A or job B. They ask God what His will is in this situation. You feel this is good? bad? or doesn't really matter?

It depends on the jobs. If one of the jobs is dancing at a strip bar then God would be angry that you even asked such a stupid question. If neither job was immoral then it would be appropriate to ask God for wisdom as it always is but if you asked God flat out which job you should take and there where no moral difference between the two then I would amagine that God's response would be something like, "Just pick one and do it with all you heart! I'm not the one who's going to be doing the job, you are. Use the wisdom that you have learned from Me and choose.

Deuteronomy 30:19
I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life, that both you and your descendants may live;​

Resting in Him,
Clete

 

[fool]

There is a font size drop down box.

See now my words are BIG.....

now my words are small....

thanks

 

[kmoney]

Clete,
Wow, the fact that I'm responding to your post so quickly tells you that I'm having one EVENTFUL friday night!!! haha, anyway....

How I see it is irrelivent. The fact of the matter is that you are being contradictory. You are in effect say that freedom is both the ability and the inability to do or to do otherwise at the same time and in the same relationship. That is a violation of the law of non-contradiction. Your position is irrational.

I do not believe I am saying that "freedom is both the ability and the inability to do or to do otherwise"....
I am saying that freedom is the ability to do or to do otherwise. We have free will to make choices in our life. God knows those choices. When God looks into the future it is as if life is happening at that moment and God is seeing it happen live. Ok, I hate to use this angle, but I'm gonna do it anyway ....remember the movie "Back to the Future"?
Lets say someone actually has a time machine and travels to the year 2025 and lets say they witness the Kansas City Royals win the World Series (GO ROYALS!!!)...then the person travels back to the present where the Royals are 24-41 (HORRIBLE!). That person knows what will happen in the year 2025. It isn't just a prophesy; they KNOW what will happen. Does that mean the events of 2025 will occur without free will? No, at least I don't think so. Now, my time machine example isn't EXACTLY how God would know the future, but do you at least kinda see where I'm coming from? haha......

I saw it a few momments ago. And that's all good as long as you weren't blowing the Jonah prophecy off, which it doesn't seem to be what you were doing.

I wasn't.....

It depends on the jobs. If one of the jobs is dancing at a strip bar then God would be angry that you even asked such a stupid question.

HA, yes. I was leaving immoral jobs out of the question, though I didn't explicitly mention this.

If neither job was immoral then it would be appropriate to ask God for wisdom as it always is but if you asked God flat out which job you should take and there where no moral difference between the two then I would amagine that God's response would be something like, "Just pick one and do it with all you heart! I'm not the one who's going to be doing the job, you are. Use the wisdom that you have learned from Me and choose.

Agreed.

Kevin

 

[kmoney]

Clete,

Keep in mind that, as I said before, I am not joined at the side with my belief of God knowing the future. I am open to the possibility of Open Theology, but it has nothing to do with the logical arguments you have given, and everything to do with scripture.

Kevin

 

[Yorzhik]

Nancy, sorry I put my question in a quote box so it was hard to see that it was being asked of you. Here is the question outside of a quote box. It's a very easy question to answer.

Every choice we make has causes. Every cause is known by God, therefore God knows all our choices. Is that correct?

 

[godrulz]

what do you think about what Godrulz said?
let's do a hypothetical
a baby dies shortly after birth
dosen't get a chance to hear about Jesus
which book is he in?

The baby did not reject Christ and is not mentally or morally capable. They go to heaven and are in the Book of Life.

 

[godrulz]

Well, here is some info I got from a website, I guess everyone can just make their own decisions!

2 SAMUEL 12:23—Do those who die in infancy go to heaven?

PROBLEM:

The Scriptures teach that we are born in sin (Ps. 51:5) because we “all sinned [in Adam]” (Rom. 5:12). Yet David implies here that his baby, who died, will be in heaven, saying, “I shall go to him” (v. 23).

SOLUTION:

There are three views regarding children who die before the age of accountability, that is, before they are old enough to be morally responsible for their own actions.

Only Elect Infants Go to Heaven.

Some strong Calvinists believe that only those babies that are predestined go to heaven (Eph. 1:4; Rom. 8:29). Those who are not elect go to hell. They see no greater problem with infant predestination than with adult predestination, insisting that everyone is deserving of hell and that it is only by God’s mercy that any are saved (Titus 3:5–6).

Only Infants Who Would Have Believed Go to Heaven.

Others claim that God knows the end from the beginning (Isa. 46:10) and the potential as well as the actual. Thus, God knows those infants and little children who would have believed in Christ had they lived long enough. Otherwise, they contend, there would be people in heaven who would not have believed in Christ, which is contrary to Scripture (John 3:36). All infants whom God knows would not have believed, had they lived long enough, will go to hell.

All Infants Go to Heaven.

Still others believe that all who die before the age of accountability will go to heaven. They base this on the following Scriptures. First, Isaiah 7:16 speaks of an age before a child is morally accountable, namely, “before the child shall know to refuse the evil and choose the good.” Second, David believed in life after death and the resurrection (Ps. 16:10–11), so when he spoke of going to be with his son who died after birth (2 Sam. 12:23), he implied that those who die in infancy go to heaven. Third, Psalm 139 speaks of an unborn baby as a creation of God whose name is written down in God’s “book” in heaven (vv. 14–16). Fourth, Jesus said, “Let the little children come to Me, and do not forbid them; for of such is the kingdom of God” (Mark 10:14), thus indicating that even little children will be in heaven. Fifth, some see support in Jesus’ affirmation that even “little ones” (i.e., children) have a guardian angel “in heaven” who watches over them (Matt. 18:10). Sixth, the fact that Christ’s death for all made little children savable, even before they believed (Rom. 5:18–19). Finally, Jesus’ indication that those who did not know were not morally responsible (John 9:41) is used to support the belief that there is heaven for those who cannot yet believe, even though there is no heaven for those who are old enough and refuse to believe (John 3:36).

Are u really 15 years old? You cannot understand my posts?

 

[kmoney]

thanks

You should try it out man. It's PHUN... haha

 

[godrulz]

God is not subject to time he is eternal. Eternal means without succession. The future is a propety of time as the temporal is successsion. Therefore God being eternal would know everything past, present and future in a similtaneous all encompassing "moment."

There are several theories on the nature of eternity. Endless/everlasting duration/succession/sequence without beginning or end is more probable than 'eternal now' timelessness. "Eternal means without succession" is begging the question or circular reasoning: you are assuming what you are trying to prove.

 

[godrulz]

can you show me biblical support for God being subject to time? Ig God is subject to time, then Time is bigger thatn God, and we shouldnt be worshipping God but Time. But the Bible says all things and that means all things including time are subject to God. But you say differently, so i have to agree with you instead of the Bible.

God is love and wisdom. Does that mean love is greater than God? God has will, intellect, emotion. Does that mean we should worship these things? Succession/sequence/duration (time) is an aspect of any personal being, including the triune God. It does not mean time is bigger than God or that He is limited by it. It is reality for Him and us.