Does God Create Reprobates?
- Thread starter Robert Pate
- Start date
Shasta
Well-known member
I want to return to the second chapter of 2 Peter which, some claim proves that God brings human beings into existence for the sole purpose of consigning them to destruction.
12 But these, as natural brute beasts, born to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption; (2 Peter 2:12)
Here are other descriptions of the kind of life these men had fallen into: 2 Peter 2:2-3, 10, 12-14. This verse is speaking of a class of men in the terminal stage of corruption. Like a malignant form of cancer, their sin had grown and metastasized until it had corrupted every area of their lives. They are said to be like wild animals, spiritual predators who pervert the faith of the flock and feed on them (2 Peter 2:1).
Yet they had not always been this way. Here is the background of their story.
If they have escaped the corruption (Grk: miasma - pollution or defilement) of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ…. and are again entangled in it and are overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning (2 Peter 2:20).
The word “knowing" or "knowledge” is the Greek word epignosis which according to Strong’s Concordance means a "knowledge gained through first-hand relationship") – properly, "contact-knowledge" that is appropriate ("apt, fitting") to first-hand, experiential knowing.
Thayer’s Lexicon adds that the word implies “the true knowledge of Christ's nature, dignity, benefits and gives as references: Ephesians 4:13; 2 Peter 1:8; 2 Peter 2:20;”
http://biblehub.com/greek/1922.htm
First of all, this was not false doctrine but true knowledge (of the gospel). Second, this kind of “knowing” was not merely academic but personal and experiential. Peter is saying that at one time in their past their experience of the gospel had freed them from sin. This is not mere moral reform as I have heard some people say.
Sadly, however, they were later entangled by the same “defilements”which they had escaped. Not only were they entangled but this time they were completely overcome by them. As in the Parable the Sower, the seed of life had been planted in them. It had germinated and grown but then the thorns (lusts) grew so thick that the new life was extinguished (Matthew 13:22).
Peter then says that their last condition was worse than their first. However, if their initial condition was being lost and their final state is destruction what consequence could possibly be worse than that? In the paradigm of OSAS it could never be said of a backslider that “their last state was worse than the beginning” for then, no matter how much a person sins in this life, they can still look forward to an eternity of joy in the next. The only way the consequences could be worse is if their experience of hell was somehow made more painful by the fact that they had once known the truth…but can this happen? Can hell be actually be worse for some people than for others? According to Jesus it can be and for precisely this same reason (Luke 12:47).
Taking the whole chapter of 2 Peter 2 into consideration it is evident that God had been merciful to these men at one point in their lives. It was THEY who chose to turn away from the grace of God and deny the Faith they had once received by embracing heretical doctrine.
We do not see the picture of a God whose sole purpose for bringing men into the world is to destroy them. Instead, we see how men prepare themselves for judgment by refusing His mercy and abandoning their faith.
12 But these, as natural brute beasts, born to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption; (2 Peter 2:12)
Here are other descriptions of the kind of life these men had fallen into: 2 Peter 2:2-3, 10, 12-14. This verse is speaking of a class of men in the terminal stage of corruption. Like a malignant form of cancer, their sin had grown and metastasized until it had corrupted every area of their lives. They are said to be like wild animals, spiritual predators who pervert the faith of the flock and feed on them (2 Peter 2:1).
Yet they had not always been this way. Here is the background of their story.
If they have escaped the corruption (Grk: miasma - pollution or defilement) of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ…. and are again entangled in it and are overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning (2 Peter 2:20).
The word “knowing" or "knowledge” is the Greek word epignosis which according to Strong’s Concordance means a "knowledge gained through first-hand relationship") – properly, "contact-knowledge" that is appropriate ("apt, fitting") to first-hand, experiential knowing.
Thayer’s Lexicon adds that the word implies “the true knowledge of Christ's nature, dignity, benefits and gives as references: Ephesians 4:13; 2 Peter 1:8; 2 Peter 2:20;”
http://biblehub.com/greek/1922.htm
First of all, this was not false doctrine but true knowledge (of the gospel). Second, this kind of “knowing” was not merely academic but personal and experiential. Peter is saying that at one time in their past their experience of the gospel had freed them from sin. This is not mere moral reform as I have heard some people say.
Sadly, however, they were later entangled by the same “defilements”which they had escaped. Not only were they entangled but this time they were completely overcome by them. As in the Parable the Sower, the seed of life had been planted in them. It had germinated and grown but then the thorns (lusts) grew so thick that the new life was extinguished (Matthew 13:22).
Peter then says that their last condition was worse than their first. However, if their initial condition was being lost and their final state is destruction what consequence could possibly be worse than that? In the paradigm of OSAS it could never be said of a backslider that “their last state was worse than the beginning” for then, no matter how much a person sins in this life, they can still look forward to an eternity of joy in the next. The only way the consequences could be worse is if their experience of hell was somehow made more painful by the fact that they had once known the truth…but can this happen? Can hell be actually be worse for some people than for others? According to Jesus it can be and for precisely this same reason (Luke 12:47).
Taking the whole chapter of 2 Peter 2 into consideration it is evident that God had been merciful to these men at one point in their lives. It was THEY who chose to turn away from the grace of God and deny the Faith they had once received by embracing heretical doctrine.
We do not see the picture of a God whose sole purpose for bringing men into the world is to destroy them. Instead, we see how men prepare themselves for judgment by refusing His mercy and abandoning their faith.
beloved57
Well-known member
All you did is post scripture, doesnt mean you believe or understand it !
beloved57
Well-known member
You dont even believe the scriptures, most you do is haphazardly quote them !
If God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, doesn't it make sense that God would provide salvation for the whole world?
beloved57
Well-known member
You dont even believe in God. I have explained Jn 3:16 in my threads ! Your understanding of scripture is based on the natural man !
So, you believe that people on the Forum quote scripture that they don't understand?
That's really stupid. Is that what you do?
All that you do is falsely accuse those that oppose you.
You have never explained John 3:16.
John 3:16 refutes everything that you believe.
beloved57
Well-known member
You dont believe in God or Jn 3:16 ! Then you teach that Christ's Blood is worthless in saving all for whom it was shed !
Christ's blood was shed for the sins of the world, John 3:16.
Only a heretic would deny that.
Shasta
Well-known member
All the scripture I cited I took time to explain in detail. You offer no proof whatsoever that I have been haphazard about it. A denial is not a rebuttal.
He has no scripture to rebut. He usually just says see you at the judgement.
Shasta
Well-known member
beloved57
Well-known member
You don't believe the scriptures! You don't believe in God, not the God I believe in!
beloved57
Well-known member
You deny it every day!
You have not a clue to what it means.
The reason for that is because you have embraced other writings than the Bible. Like "The Canons of Dort".
beloved57
Well-known member
Your teaching is a disgrace to Jesus Christ and His Saving Death!
Throw your Canons of Dort in the trash and believe the Bible.
You might even get saved.
beloved57
Well-known member
Again
Your teaching is a disgrace to Jesus Christ and His Saving Death! Also to the Holy Spirit, and the Father ! You teach that Millions for whom Christ died, still perish lost in their sins He died for !