Does Calvinism Make God Unjust?

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popsthebuilder

New member
Grosnick Marowbe said:
By being less humble, you'll be garnering my respect, yes. So far as you being: odd, well, that's a worthy self-assessment. It also shows you have, at least a modicum of discernment., which is a good start.
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I can't be less humble... To me humility is a virtue worth striving for.

Peace

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Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
Grosnick Marowbe said:
I consider AMR the most intelligent Calvinist on TOL. He and I have had our "disagreements" in the past, however, I'm happy to announce that he and I have reached a certain "detente" in our relationship as fellow posters. It just goes to show, it's possible for former combatants to actively pursue a more friendly environment. Try it yourself. You may find it quite refreshing.
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Don't let him suck you in. He is as anti-Gospel as ever.

Satan was one of the most beautiful, intelligent angels in heaven. He thought that he was smarter than God, much like AMR.
 
beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
Robert Pate said:
Don't let him suck you in. He is as anti-Gospel as ever.

Satan was one of the most beautiful, intelligent angels in heaven. He thought that he was smarter than God, much like AMR.
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You are anti gospel teaching that sinners Christ died for wind up lost!
 
andyc

andyc

New member
Grosnick Marowbe said:
I have placed TulipBee and AndyC on Ignore so that I can concentrate on more "apropos" conversations. The constant bickering doesn't present a calm atmosphere on TOL and therefore, I think it best to take this appropriate stance.
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Again?
Don't shatter my hopes again.
Being ignored by the most pointless individual on TOL is a blessing.
 
Ask Mr. Religion

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Bright Raven said:
Do you believe that infants that have not reached an age of accountability are lost
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Firstly, I do not believe in the notion of "age of accountability" as this is a Baptist view, especially as relates to their anti-paedo baptism position that denies a covenantal relationship of the children of believers.

Secondly, I have never maintained that all infants are lost if they should die in infancy. I maintain all are born lost, as they are born sinners in the sin of Adam, just as if they were there with Adam in the Garden when he sinned.

Thirdly, I maintain all elect infants dying in infancy are not lost to God. From this it necessarily means not all infants are among the elect. As I have stated we have hope from Scripture that infants of believing parents are among the elect, but that hope should not be made into a demand upon God.

AMR
 
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Grosnick Marowbe

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I'd hate to mistake you for an ingrate Pops. I have to warn you, if you get any more humble than you are right now, you won't be able to leave the house without everybody handing you the change in their pockets. That could become burdensome for you.
 
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popsthebuilder

New member
Grosnick Marowbe said:
I'd hate to mistake you for an ingrate Pops. I have to warn you, if you get any more humble than you are right now, you won't be able to leave the house without everybody handing you the change in their pockets. That could become burdensome for you.
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Not at all...i would do in like kind.

Did crack a smile though.

It will be a wholly different world when the majority of people give for the sake of giving, to any they perceive they can help.

Peace

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Arthur Brain said:
Right, so my initial post regarding this wasn't that far off the mark after all then. That being that the logical extension of your belief system applies to infants and the unborn also, and that they're obviously not all part of the 'elect' as you've duly just acknowledged.
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There is no logical extension here. Not all born infants or all unborn or miscarried are elect. Some are, some are not. Life begins at conception. The soul exists at that moment. Body and soul are a person. Elect human beings are persons marked out by God for His own good pleasure and without consideration of any foreseen merit in the person. Christian parents of all these, the unborn, the born, or the miscarried, have a warrant to hope, not a demand, that said persons who die are among the elect.

Arthur Brain said:
Their belief (or lack thereof) shouldn't even enter the equation, and nobody was even on about any particular parent 'seeking your counsel' either.
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Follow your own posts. You, not I, questioned what I would have to say as counsel to these parents. I responded. If you do not want an answer, refrain from posing questions directed at me or mark them as but sarcasm or rhetorical. :AMR:

Arthur Brain said:
What hope have you got to offer the parents who live in the slums of Liberia where adequate toilet facilities are as rare as a talking aardvark?
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The same hope as all who lift up prayers to God for ease of the earthly station of others (or themselves) in need.

Arthur Brain said:
Oh, I do apologize.
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Thank you.

Arthur Brain said:
Oh, my sister is not a Christian and does not teach her daughters via the bible but she loves them to bits and does everything a loving parent could do for their children. But, I guess they're possibly all reprobate so what the heck eh? If my nieces die tomorrow they evidently don't have the same chance of being part of the elect under your system do they?
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They may very well be reprobate. They may very will be elect. Loving parenting does not substitute for doing one's duty to God. If your niece is concerned about the matter, then point her to the Good News. If you are concerned for your nieces, then find the time to instruct them accordingly. This is the believer's duty. Do it. Doing one's duty is but one of the many means by which God's plans are actualized. Avail yourself of all the means and leave the matter in God's hands.

AMR
 
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popsthebuilder said:
The moral obligation of a Christian is believing and following the teachings example and self sacrifice of the Christ.
As you said yourself; it isn't needed for salvation. Just because it contains some truth doesn't mean one is damned for eternity for not grasping it. Not saying that I don't, just that assuming if one didn't, they would be burned for eternity is just wrong based on any type of morality you want to use. If you agree that the ignorant are safer than those who knowingly don't follow the commands of the Christ then how can you say that those ignorant of the trinity doctrine are doomed to eternal torment?
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The theoretical possibility I spoke of relies upon extraordinary works of God. Let's not presume God is obliged to work miracles beyond what He has established as the ordinary means of salvation just because we do not like the ordinary means. God is not a vending machine that drops out our winsome selections upon demand.

popsthebuilder said:
To say one who isn't a Trinitarian doesn't have faith in GOD is 100% wrong and 0% evidenced in scripture.

Frankly, you are talking out of your butt.
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You have been answered to the contrary and have offered up nothing that resembles a counterpoint other than opinion that I can work with. If you do not want to learn, are not disposed to correction, or consider anything but your own entrenched views, refrain from communicating directly with me.

AMR
 
Arthur Brain

Arthur Brain

Well-known member
Ask Mr. Religion said:
There is no logical extension here. Not all born infants or all unborn or miscarried are elect. Some are, some are not. Life begins at conception. The soul exists at that moment. Body and soul are a person. Elect human beings are persons marked out by God for His own good pleasure and without consideration of any foreseen merit in the person. Christian parents of all these, the unborn, the born, or the miscarried, have a warrant to hope, not a demand, that said persons who die are among the elect.
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Of course there is and you've just provided how. Under your belief system not all infants etc are part of the 'elect'. That was the point. It's sickening but logical in context of your belief.

Follow your own posts. You, not I, questioned what I would have to say as counsel to these parents. I responded. If you do not want an answer, refrain from posing questions directed at me or mark them as but sarcasm or rhetorical. :AMR:
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I follow the conversation just fine thanks. I made my comments in light of that.

The same hope as all who lift up prayers to God for ease of the earthly station of others (or themselves) in need.
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So just the 'elect' ones then...

Thank you.
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Way to quote snip there AMR. Classy...

They may very well be reprobate. They may very will be elect. Loving parenting does not substitute for doing one's duty to God. If your niece is concerned about the matter, then point her to the Good News. If you are concerned for your nieces, then find the time to instruct them accordingly. This is the believer's duty. Do it. Doing one's duty is but one of the many means by which God's plans are actualized. Avail yourself of all the means and leave the matter in God's hands.

AMR
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Do you have any idea how appalled my sister would be if she were to read your comments? Trust me you would be on the receiving end of some of the most impassioned profanity you would ever hear. You see, my sister loves her daughters and the notion that there could be some God out there who created them solely to torment them through eternity would disgust her beyond words - as it would with anyone with a sliver of compassion or empathy about them. You don't have any 'good news' to offer, you have a sickening doctrine that portrays a monstrous God who delights in capriciousness and cruelty. I won't instruct my nieces with anything of the sort.
 
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popsthebuilder

New member
Ask Mr. Religion said:
The theoretical possibility I spoke of relies upon extraordinary works of God. Let's not presume God is obliged to work miracles beyond what He has established as the ordinary means of salvation just because we do not like the ordinary means. God is not a vending machine that drops out our winsome selections upon demand.


You have been answered to the contrary and have offered up nothing that resembles a counterpoint other than opinion that I can work with. If you do not want to learn, are not disposed to correction, or consider anything but your own entrenched views, refrain from communicating directly with me.

AMR
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What are you a parrot now?

I'm not sure why you keep quoting me.

You've made your points. They aren't valid, and show you to be guilty of the things you accuse me of here, but you did make them. To you my faith is of no worth... I drew the line there if you were curious. Even if I hadn't; I already said I was done talking you seriously until you realized your own error that seemingly stems from pride.

Like I said; carry on until you are content. It doesn't matter to me how eloquently you comprise your vain ramblings or how grand the assumptions are that you must make to paint me in such a negative manipulated manner. Though it may affect others opinion of me; GOD knows the truth.

Peace

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