beloved57
Well-known member
No it's not
Does Calvinism Make God Unjust?
- Thread starter Robert Pate
- Start date
No it's not
popsthebuilder
New member
Then why, contrary to the doctrine, do we see so many acting and speaking in such a way? Do you think it is a miss understanding or misinterpretation of the gospel of grace? Why, if people know and or believe a thing to be true, do they not act accordingly?
Again this isn't a reference to you. In our dealings you have been knowledgeable and seemingly without bias.
So thank you.
Peace
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popsthebuilder
New member
I assure you sir; it was and is. For one to speak hatefully towards or about a thing with any sincerity then they must actually hate that thing.
I do not hate or dislike or disapprove of GOD, and am thankful in all things towards GOD.
So how is your statement not a lie?
Perhaps you could quote the specific God hate part.
Peace
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Nang
TOL Subscriber
Contrary to which doctrine?
I observe much more judgmentalism and charges of reprobation leveled against others by advocates of "free" will decisionalism, than I do from Calvinists.
Indeed, yes!
Tattooed Theist
New member
Per my understanding, Calvinism makes God the doer of all things. Even Evil. If everything is predetermined than evil is predetermined as well. Wouldn't it be?
popsthebuilder
New member
The Calvinist doctrine that you clarified.
It is irrelevant. I was worried that those who follow Calvinist doctrine were somehow quite lost themselves, but you have proved that stereotype to be a misconception of sorts.
Peace
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Nang
TOL Subscriber
God is Sovereign over all things, even the secondary causal agency He has given to man to act upon and effect his surroundings and associations.
"Evil" is an effect of mans' workings of wrongful (sinful) secondary causes. IOW's evil is the wages (judgment) against sin.
Scripture says God so created evil as a natural, necessary RESULT of sin.
beloved57
Well-known member
You love the god of your darkened understanding, not the One of scripture, I assure you that !
Ask Mr. Religion
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Actually Calvinism does not make the God doer of all things. Obviously, God did not actually write your post above. That God is the antecedent cause of all that happens is not in dispute by Calvinists or anyone in Christendom. God's decree contemplates the proximate causes by the actual moral agents that do this or that according to their greatest inclinations at the moment they do this or that.
Further, no Calvinist will deny that God ordained that sin would come about through the voluntary choice of mankind. The complaints about this usually revolve around attempts to find the answer to how a Sovereign God can do this. This is wrong reasoning, for the how is not revealed to us in Scripture. That man is wholly responsible and God wholly sovereign are two truths taught in Scripture. We are obliged to believe them, whether or not we are able to fully understand how God pulls this off. If we can accept by faith that by mere speaking, an entire universe sprang into existence out of nothing, accepting by faith that God can be wholly sovereign and man wholly responsible is really just child's play in comparison.
A solid understanding of what Calvinists actually believe can be found here: WCF. An exposition of the WCF can also be found here.
AMR
Rosenritter
New member
I am pretty sure that molecules are not free moral agents, thus do not have the ability to disobey, sin, or grieve the Lord.
Rosenritter
New member
Rosenritter
New member
Yet there's quite a lot of that going on on this board... some of it from Calvinists.
beloved57
Well-known member
Invalid rabbit trail comments !
Lon
Well-known member
Explained well as to secondary causes and what you believe. I hope folks will take a moment to read and understand what you just said. They may not agree, but it explains exactly why God remains just and righteous in your view. :up:
Then you're made of molecules and you're not free. Can't beat around that.
popsthebuilder
New member
Tattooed Theist
New member
So this section of your reply, still has me in a funk.
God created evil, therefor he caused evil, therefore when evil happens - it is because of Him, No?
Although it is indirect, it is still caused and facilitated BY Him.
If I leave a pack of cigarettes and a lighter on my daughters bed stand with a note that says "don't smoke, it's bad." She can choose wether to smoke them or not, but I certainly have done wrong by putting it there in the first place, I've facilitated her choosing that.
100% spiritually dead means that as Calvinism States it right. You think you're able but you don't even try to see if you were able. Fact check yourself and discover you lied to yourself. Imaginations only digs deeper holes for your non existing soul
Read the book of Isaiah and you'll come across that
Tattooed Theist
New member
Do you then disregard the Gospels and the Epistles?
How do you justify what we study in Isaiah in collaboration with Jesus' ministry?
I don't see Isaiah as problematic in terms of God's nature as *good*.