beloved57
Well-known member
Who said Jesus didn't call God His Father? You sound confused.
Does Calvinism Make God Unjust?
- Thread starter Robert Pate
- Start date
Who said Jesus didn't call God His Father? You sound confused.
AMR, that was an interesting and helpful read, thanks for the link.
Regarding the interpretation of Matthew 7:13-14 you might be interested in acquiring (if you don't already have it) this magnificent and most informative work titled, Postmillennialism: An Eschatology of Hope, by Keith A. Mathison, 248 pages (published by Presbyterian and Reformed Publishing Company, Phillipsburg, New Jersey.)
Mathison makes excellent points regarding Matthew 7:13-14. One is "Nothing in the passage indicates that it is describing a permanent state of affairs." Mathison quotes Warfield on Matthew 7:14's "only a few find it.": There is no reason to think "that the circumstances intimated or implied are necessarily constant and must remain forever unchanged."
My view is the Lord Jesus' intent in Matthew 7:14 was to describe the sad state of spirituality that existed among the Jews at that particular moment in history. His "only a few find it" was not prophetic and not predictive for how conditions would always be in the future.
Moreover the huge number of arguments supporting a Postmillennial interpretation of Christian Eschatology also argue against a predictive interpretation of Mt. 7:14
I hold the position that the numbers of God's born again believers, as history unfolds and before time ends, will be as numerous as the grains of sand on the seashore and as numerous as the number of stars in the heavens (that is, the number of stars known by God to exist), and that the numbers will be so huge/enormous that no man can count them as per Rev. 7:9.
Salvation has been provided for the whole world through the doing and the dying of Jesus, unfortunately not all want it. Instead they want to be predestinated or saved by works and religion. This is why Jesus said, "Few there be that find it". Very few believe the Gospel and justification by faith.
marhig
Well-known member
I never said that, I said that it's clear in the Bible that Jesus calls God his God!
marhig
Well-known member
So you can't show me where in the Bible that Jesus, God, the apostles or the prophets say that we have to believe in the trinity to be saved?
Yet you and others will judge others because we don't believe this. And you think that were under a strong delusion!
If i was to say that people here aren't saved unless they believe in the teachings that I believe in even though it doesn't say it in the Bible you would all be at me. But I'm supposed believe in the trinity even though nowhere in the Bible does it say that I have to do that to be saved? Nowhere!
And I can't find any verse with the word trinity or triune God in the Bible, so how can I show you a verse that says that you don't have to believe in one?
1Mind1Spirit
Literal lunatic
Touche.
beloved57
Well-known member
False statements, teaching legalism salvation by the will of man!
beloved57
Well-known member
Look like you can't show me.
Rosenritter
New member
Can you show me the chapter and verse that tells us that we are saved without believing in Santa Claus and Flying Spaghetti Monsters? Are you daft or do you seriously not understand that that particular challenge you made is nonsensical and invalid?
Rosenritter
New member
Which proves absolutely nothing, other than Jesus was not a rebel against God.
Rosenritter
New member
Can you show me a passage that says that beloved57 isn't an idiot?
beloved57
Well-known member
I didn't say you said it. Yeah Jesus calls God, God and Father. Where does it say that Jesus Christ isn't God also ?
marhig
Well-known member
Crucible, nowhere in the Bible does it say that we have to believe in the trinity, yet you call others heretics and even go as far as saying heretics deserve death for not believing in it?
Crucible,
The list of Calvinists below in the quote block interpret Mt. 7:14 as descriptive of the sad spiritual condition of the Jews at that particular time in the 1st century. They reject the interpretation of Mt. 7:14 as being predictive of how conditions will always be in the future. These Calvinists have zero to do with the modern day liberalism that exists within some Presbyterian denominations.
Calvinism makes a substantial contribution to vanishing that notion off the planet, but the real destroyer of that notion is the Postmillennial Eschatological System.
Calvin had an excellent opportunity to say that the final number of the chosen will be small and he passed it up and did not even mention eschatology in his comments --- see his commentary on Mt.7:13-14 here:
http://www.studylight.org/commentaries/cal/matthew-7.html
Calvin bypassed another opportunity in his commentary on Mt.22:14, here:
http://www.studylight.org/commentaries/cal/matthew-22.html
Again Calvin made no eschatological comments indicating he believed that the final number of the chosen would be small.
Same thing in Calvin's commentary on Luke 13:23
http://www.studylight.org/commentaries/cal/luke-13.html
Again Calvin makes no eschatological comments regarding the final number of the chosen that they must be dinky in number.
I call 'revision' on the presbyterslain:
What does "revision" mean to you? Is it a bad thing?
Are you suggesting that men like Charles Hodge, Robert L. Dabney, W. G. T. Shedd, and B. B. Warfield, Loraine Boettner, and Dr. S. G. Craig are guilty of "revision" just because they disagree with you on the interpretation of Mt.7:14?
Btw, it would not be merely that distinguished list of Calvinists that are, on your lights, guilty of "revision" --- your list would also have to include ALL those on the list of distinguished Christian scholars who hold the Postmillennial Eschatological System. They all disagree with your interpretation of Mt.7:13-14.
They too, on your lights, are guilty of "revision" --- whatever that means?
marhig
Well-known member
Jesus clearly says that God is his God, meaning that God is the God of Jesus, Jesus even says YOU the only true God, and I believe it because Jesus said it. I'm not saying that you have to believe as I do. Its you and others that are calling people like me as unsaved and not belonging to God for not believing in the trinity when the Bible doesn't say anywhere in it that we have to!
Agreed.
See some arguments against your interpretation of "few there be that find it", here: http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?120058-Will-Only-A-Few-Human-Beings-Be-Saved-No
A mighty, marvelous, and magnificent doctrine, one of the major foundational doctrines of Bible-believing Christendom.
Revising what was traditionally held to be otherwise.
In Calvin's time, there was no notion that an almost universal amount of people would inherit salvation. He himself, Luther, and the rest, all rather made salvation a bit more rigid then the Catholics proposed.
It seems to me that the Presbyterian church, like the Lutheran church, are becoming 'counter reformist'. It's probably better to state it as that rather then compare the Anglican communion.
I'm Reformed Baptist- so I have no obligation to account for the elders
lain:
1Mind1Spirit
Literal lunatic
Common sense.