Does Calvinism Make God Unjust?

[Grosnick Marowbe]

A person who never believes was never elected by God- he wasn't chosen to be brought into God's providence.

From a "Non-Denominational" standpoint, God's gift of eternal life is offered to ALL of humanity. However, they must first, hear the Gospel and respond by placing their faith in Christ alone. The difference between the Calvinist and the Grace Believer is the issue of free will. Grace Believers contend that God created humanity with a free will. Whereas, the Calvinists believe humanity has no free will of their own and that God chose before the foundation of the world, who would be saved and who would suffer eternal damnation.

So, our reasoning for HOW we received eternal life is totally at odds with one another.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Crucible, I attended a Non-Denominational Grace Believing church from 1962 until 2008. They regularly held Communion on certain occasions. Get your facts straight. Water Baptism is unnecessary in this "Dispensation of Grace." We have ONE Baptism and that's when the Holy Spirit Baptizes a believer into the Body of Christ.

Ephesians 4:5 "One Lord, one faith, one baptism," Paul was sent to preach the Gospel and not to Baptize.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

A person who never believes was never elected by God- he wasn't chosen to be brought into God's providence.

A person who never believes was one who chose not to.

 

[Crucible]

From a "Non-Denominational" standpoint, God's gift of eternal life is offered to ALL of humanity. However, they must first, hear the Gospel and respond by placing their faith in Christ alone. The difference between the Calvinist and the Grace Believer is the issue of free will. Grace Believers contend that God created humanity with a free will. Whereas, the Calvinists believe humanity has no free will of their own and that God chose before the foundation of the world, who would be saved and who would suffer eternal damnation.

So, our reasoning for HOW we received eternal life is totally at odds with one another.

Calvinism is the gospel behind the gospel. In particular, TULIP is deductively gathered from all the revelations of the scriptures and serves to be an infallible measure of correctly interpreting the Bible.

Reformed theology is properly and beautifully situated on the notion that God is fully sovereign and therefore a powerful savior- not a beggar or in high hopes that man may stay or go. I'm sorry if that sounds rough, but it's really the only thing that comes to mind in criticizing the 'free will' or 'open theist' crowd.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Calvinism is the gospel behind the gospel. In particular, TULIP is deductively gathered from all the revelations of the scriptures and serves to be an infallible measure of correctly interpreting the Bible.

Reformed theology is properly and beautifully situated on the notion that God is fully sovereign and therefore a powerful savior- not a beggar or in high hopes that man may stay or go. I'm sorry if that sounds rough, but it's really the only thing that comes to mind in criticizing the 'free will' or 'open theist' crowd.

Well, that's what you place your faith in. On the otherhand, I've chosen to place my faith in God's Grace received through faith in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

 

[Crucible]

Well, that's what you place your faith in. On the otherhand, I've chosen to place my faith in God's Grace received through faith in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Yeah, never mind the fact that it was God who called upon Abraham, and not the other way around- otherwise, he would have continued on believing in that sun god he learned about in Egypt lain:

 

[popsthebuilder]

Why not do so then and clear up any misunderstanding arising from your inclusiveness attitudes about those beyond the bounds of orthodoxy?

Do you have a statement of faith written down?

You can start with my own and modify it to suit your own views:

http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...-Elected-Man&p=4636553&viewfull=1#post4636553

Unless we stand for something, we will fall for anything.

AMR

You've made it clear that you would not even consider my opinion, nor the opinions of others that vary from your own, yet then go about posting your own creed and insisting I read and alter it. I have no all inclusive attitude, I have an attitude or edification of my brothers that do not see me as a brother. I speak not of a creed because it is not needed.

If people want to go about blindly assuming, conflating, and criticizing professing brothers then that is their business I suppose. If others want to claim the utter misdirection and evil or potential of evil of others all while blindly aiding others in obvious error because they have similar beliefs then fine. If proud people are so arrogant that they look right past scripture that plainly says even the Christ was full of humility, or somehow think that since Christ did it they shouldn't do it as Christians, then, well... OK.

All I can do is correct what I see that I know is wrong. Whether people pay any attention or not is on them. Honest introspection is a big thing in scripture.

It starts there for the brother in Christ.

Perhaps we will move from that if and when any can even agree on that single point.

Pay attention to my words and you will find my creed to GOD through the Christ, blessed be His name.

All thanks and supplication is to GOD by the way of the Christ.

Peace...with humility and sincerity

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[popsthebuilder]

Calvinism doesn't teach that unbelievers are saved, it teaches this quite simply: that a man is not saved because he believes in Christ, but rather believes in Christ because he is saved.



:rotfl: That's a good one, tell it again.

Calvinist ideology is heavily based upon Augustinian theology, in which God is before anything else immutable. That means He is not subject to changing His mind or His will being altered.

If you really knew Calvinism, you would know St. Augustine's influence on Reformed belief. But you don't- you rather see it as merely a 16th century incantation. You all don't really know what it is you're against, it's rather some imagination spawned from unfounded prejudice.

I'd like to state; since you keep saying "you all"; that I wholly believe the will of GOD to be ultimately immutable. Yet that doesn't mean we don't see change with the new testament or that there will not be change at the second coming.

Insisting that only the Calvinist is rightly guided, especially while some of even them are obviously in error is just not truthful.

It really does sound like old Catholicism which we know isn't actually catholic, or submissive to the Will of GOD.

peace

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[beloved57]

I understand what you are saying, now prove with scripture that God saves unbelievers.

Those Christ died for are reconciled saved while they are enemies/unbelievers Rom 5:10

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

I speak not of a creed because it is not needed.

http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...e-God-Unjust&p=4825297&viewfull=1#post4825297

AMR

 

[Crucible]

I'd like to state; since you keep saying "you all"; that I wholly believe the will of GOD to be ultimately immutable. Yet that doesn't mean we don't see change with the new testament or that there will not be change at the second coming.

Insisting that only the Calvinist is rightly guided, especially while some of even them are obviously in error is just not truthful.

It really does sound like old Catholicism which we know isn't actually catholic, or submissive to the Will of GOD.

peace

An aspect which many people fail to acknowledge is the reality of God's unchanging 'hidden will'. What one sees as 'change' is really just 'revelation'. The world is still under the Old Law, and only in Christ's providence does the New Covenant exist.

Which ties in directly to the Elect.

It's an argument in futility to challenge Calvinism with the notion that 'God calls upon the whole world' because it's stated plainly in the that God preordained the elect- the only way around it is to say that everyone is elected, which makes the very word pointless.

I sit here and I see a lot of people going about Calvinism as if it's beliefs aren't in the Bible, and they are- they are fully recognized in the text. God founded Abraham, Isaac, Moses, David, the Apostles, and so on- not the other way around. The TULIP doctrine is the constant of it all.

That is, the unchanging constant.

 

[God's Truth]

Those Christ died for are reconciled saved while they are enemies/unbelievers Rom 5:10

That scripture is about the enemy Gentiles who did not get circumcised. It is about not having to get circumcised before being saved.

 

[God's Truth]

You've made it clear that you would not even consider my opinion, nor the opinions of others that vary from your own, yet then go about posting your own creed and insisting I read and alter it. I have no all inclusive attitude, I have an attitude or edification of my brothers that do not see me as a brother. I speak not of a creed because it is not needed.

If people want to go about blindly assuming, conflating, and criticizing professing brothers then that is their business I suppose. If others want to claim the utter misdirection and evil or potential of evil of others all while blindly aiding others in obvious error because they have similar beliefs then fine. If proud people are so arrogant that they look right past scripture that plainly says even the Christ was full of humility, or somehow think that since Christ did it they shouldn't do it as Christians, then, well... OK.

All I can do is correct what I see that I know is wrong. Whether people pay any attention or not is on them. Honest introspection is a big thing in scripture.

It starts there for the brother in Christ.

Perhaps we will move from that if and when any can even agree on that single point.

Pay attention to my words and you will find my creed to GOD through the Christ, blessed be His name.

All thanks and supplication is to GOD by the way of the Christ.

Peace...with humility and sincerity

Sent from my Z988 using Tapatalk

I can't tell you how good it is to read this truthful stuff about that poster, and about what you said concerning God's Truth.

 

[popsthebuilder]

An aspect which many people fail to acknowledge is the reality of God's unchanging 'hidden will'. What one sees as 'change' is really just 'revelation'. The world is still under the Old Law, and only in Christ's providence does the New Covenant exist.

Which ties in directly to the Elect.

It's an argument in futility to challenge Calvinism with the notion that 'God calls upon the whole world' because it's stated plainly in the that God preordained the elect- the only way around it is to say that everyone is elected, which makes the very word pointless.

I sit here and I see a lot of people going about Calvinism as if it's beliefs aren't in the Bible, and they are- they are fully recognized in the text. God founded Abraham, Isaac, Moses, David, the Apostles, and so on- not the other way around. The TULIP doctrine is the constant of it all.

That is, the unchanging constant.

That is why it is so disconcerting to see some proclaimed Calvinists in error.

Not you or anyone else

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[Crucible]

That is why it is so disconcerting to see some proclaimed Calvinists in error.

Not you or anyone else

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Double predestinarians :chuckle:

It made sense to me for about an hour- and then I realized it means God crucified Himself for a cause He foreordained :freak:

 

[Lazy afternoon]

As usual, you're confused. None are WORTHY of eternal life in and of themselves.

I did not say anyone was.

However the Christian must prove to be worthy by being faithful with what God has given him/her.---


Mat 25:2 And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.
Mat 25:3 They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:
Mat 25:4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.
Mat 25:5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.
Mat 25:6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.
Mat 25:7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.
Mat 25:8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.
Mat 25:9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.
Mat 25:10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.

Mat 25:23 His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
Mat 25:24 Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed:
Mat 25:25 And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine.
Mat 25:26 His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:
Mat 25:27 Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.
Mat 25:28 Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.
Mat 25:29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.

They must hear the Gospel and place all their faith in Jesus Christ as their Savior, be indwelt, sealed, and baptized (not by water) by the Holy Spirit into the Body of Christ. At which point they receive the righteousness of Christ and the promise of eternal life.

All your self effort to believe will not give you salvation.

LA

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

I did not say anyone was.



Mat 25:2 And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.
Mat 25:3 They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:
Mat 25:4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.
Mat 25:5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.
Mat 25:6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.
M

Those verses pertain to members of the House of Israel, not to the Gentiles of the time.

 

[marhig]

Look it up. Its a popular new age term back in my old days when jehovah witness was invented. Its the root of your beliefs invented by men. Your beliefs are based off that. Don't be surprise when your church say, "meet your Ascended Master Lord Maitreya".
I learned where your scam came from a long time ago. You probably believe that Michael is Jesus and soul sleep

I don't know what you going on about, Michael being Jesus, soul sleep. Etc.???? Michael is an angel, he's not Jesus!

I'm not a JW and I've never been a member of any church, I don't believe in any denomination I just read my Bible and pray to God. And I believe that there are good and bad people in every denomination, no one denomination is right, they've all been corrupted. The only true way is the way of Jesus, and his people are all those from every denomination who truly follow him from their hearts, not just giving lip service. Those who worship God in spirit and in truth, and live by the will of God and not the will of the flesh and who are not of the world.

I get my beliefs from the Bible, mainly because Jesus says God is his God, and as he spoke to the father, he called him the only true God. And the apostles also say that God is the God and father of Jesus and that God is the head of Christ and that Christ is under subjection to God the father. So to me, the Bible is quite clear in that God is the God and father of Christ Jesus, and Christ Jesus is the son. And I've shown many verses to show why i believe this way, I don't need any man made religion to show me who Jesus is.

I have yet to be shown one verse that says I have to believe in a trinity to be saved, or that I have to believe that Jesus is God, it says in the Bible that I have to believe, have faith and by the grace of God I will saved. No believing in a triune God no believing in God the son! Unless you care to show me where it is?

I believe in God the father, Jesus Christ the son, and the holy spirit. I believe that they are all the separate but they are all one in love and word and we are at one with them when we truly belong to Christ. But I believe that God is the head of Christ and that he is his God and he has exhalted Christ to the highest in heaven and Christ Jesus is at his right hand over everything and everything must be done through him and the only way to God is through Jesus Christ. And I don't know why people expect me not to believe this, as it says it plainly in the Bible!

 

[marhig]

I think Our Lord's condemnation of the errorists of His day includes those that would deny the Triune Godhead:

Matthew 23:15
“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you…make a single proselyte…twice as much a child of hell as yourselves”.

Give them no platform for their views, only condemnation, warning, and woe.

AMR

That chapter is all about those who speak great swelling words, know all the scriptures, who are in the high seats, who tell others how they should be living and they are not living right before God themselves, being a wrong example having a hard heart who put their flesh and this world first, and bringing others to hell by that wrong example through following them. White washed sepulchres full of dead men's bones!

Condemnation, warning and woe are to those kind of people. Who look the part, but love themselves before God. Not those who don't believe in the trinity, and it doesn't say anything about believing in the trinity in that chapter.

The best way to know who's false, is to go and read about the life of Jesus, and if they're not truly following him and obeying the commandments of God and Christ then they're not of the truth! We'll see that life of Christ in those who truly belong to him and they won't be just speaking it, they'll be living it out!

 

[marhig]

We are to be judged by our works, not by a statement or creed of faith.

If I see something against what I believe I will let it be known.

Like now the Calvinists here seem bent on insisting orthodoxy and the trinity and acceptance of a particular creed are prerequisites for salvation.

I must say; none are.

If I was to judge some here by their works, which indeed are their words in this particular case;... Well, let's just say I wouldn't be pleased to say it, I would be sad.

Thanks to GOD, even the dead can be born again through Christ, by the Will of GOD.

Peace

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Pops, this is my statement of faith, and it's all I need, I don't know about you?

And that is

To love the lord my God with all my heart, soul, mind and strength

And to love my neighbour as myself.

And I know him the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom he has sent, and I worship the father in spirit and in truth.

No need for man made creed's, it's all in the Bible!

And yes I agree, we are judged by our works as it clearly states in the Bible not by a statement for faith or creed.