True. Therefore, it would be unjustified for them to be cast into Hell for eternity. The Holy Spirit draws ALL of humanity to God's plan of salvation. The Calvinist misinterpret the God of the Bible and preach "Another Gospel" and another god.
Does Calvinism Make God Unjust?
- Thread starter Robert Pate
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True. Therefore, it would be unjustified for them to be cast into Hell for eternity. The Holy Spirit draws ALL of humanity to God's plan of salvation. The Calvinist misinterpret the God of the Bible and preach "Another Gospel" and another god.
I also believe we have to be called first by the Spirit, in other words convicted of our sin and need for a savior before we can respond to the gospel, and that is the gift of faith, the realization of truth, when we hear the gospel, which we will gladly receive or reject.
That is WHY we have no excuse, because all have the opportunity, He draws all.
God knows who will be saved, and has before the foundation of the world and as such, knows who will be lost too. (those who will reject Him)
In no way does this diminish His sovereignty, rejection is only allowed in this life. Free will is limited, God is still in control.
The god of the Calvinists isn't the God I see when I read/study the Bible.
I agree with all of that.
I disagree, that they preach another gospel. Unless they are one that is teaching that election is the gospel instead of 1 Corinthians 15:3-4
The Calvinists, over the course of hundreds of years, have changed the Character and intent of the God of the Bible.
They have a gospel that believes that God chose who would be saved before the foundation of the world and who would be damned. That's "Another gospel."
Ask Mr. Religion
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We can agree to disagree, sister.
I afford God the maximum view of sovereignty that He claims to Himself (e.g., Romans 9:14-26), not yielding a scintilla of man's cooperation in the instant of his re-birth (Jer. 9:23-240, such that God's inward call to His children is always efficacious via the working of the Holy Spirit (Eze. 36:26), creating in those so inwardly called the moral ability to irrevocably choose wisely, an ability that was not present before that instant of regeneration due to the consequences of Adam's sin. Those He so inwardly calls will not be lost to Him (John 6:39). Those not so inwardly called were never His sheep (John 10:26-29), nevertheless, the outward call of God to all men is to their duty to obey.
AMR
We have a "free will Gospel." We believe that one must first hear the Gospel, then, choose to accept or reject it. Calvinists don't believe that, therefore, they're guided by "Another gospel."
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I will admit a theoretical argument may be made:
http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...e-God-Unjust&p=4815606&viewfull=1#post4815606
AMR
Its not a "gospel" to believe that, that is what the bible says. Its doctrine.
Ephesians 4:1 For He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world to be holy and blameless in His presence. In love 5 He predestined us for adoption as His sons through Jesus Christ, according to the good pleasure of His will,…
What is His will? That men turn from sin and turn to Him.
1 Timothy 2:4 This is good and pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, 4who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
Also see:
Ezekiel 18:23
"Do I have any pleasure in the death of the wicked," declares the Lord GOD, "rather than that he should turn from his ways and live?
Ezekiel 18:32
"For I have no pleasure in the death of anyone who dies," declares the Lord GOD. "Therefore, repent and live."
Ezekiel 33:11
"Say to them, 'As I live!' declares the Lord GOD, 'I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that the wicked turn from his way and live. Turn back, turn back from your evil ways! Why then will you die, O house of Israel?'
John 3:17
For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through Him.
Romans 11:14
in the hope that I may provoke my own people to jealousy and save some of them.
1 Timothy 4:10
To this end we labor and strive, because we have set our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, and especially of those who believe.
2 Timothy 2:25
He must gently reprove those who oppose him, in the hope that God may grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth.
We'll "Agree to Disagree" on that. When you look closer at what the Calvinist is preaching, that is their gospel. They take the "free will choice" out of the Gospel equation.
And i disagree we add one thing to what He did, He grants the faith, we either retain or extend the gift He offers - if we reject it, in His sovereignty we will be forever separated from Him, no one will escape giving account, and they shall have no excuse because they will have received the truth via His Spirit. Ultimate fate is His alone to dictate which He does.
Him allowing us error in THIS LIFE, is necessary for us to freely love. Love isnt forced.
Would you have wanted to force your wife to love you, or for her to offer it freely to you?
Romans 11:29 For God’s gifts and His call are irrevocable.
Hebrews 7:25 Therefore He is able also to save forever those who draw near to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.
John 5:24 Truly, truly, I tell you, whoever hears My word and believes Him who sent Me has eternal life and will not come under judgment. Indeed, he has crossed over from death to life.
elects dont reject
faith comes from God
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I prefer to not ignore the consequences of Adam's sin upon all His progeny. If an infant, or the mentally incapacitated is elect, he or she will be saved. Believing parents may hope—per Scripture—that their child dying in infancy will be saved, but not demand it be so.
AMR
agree, you wouldnt be elect of God if you rejected Him.
sheep are not goats
Rosenritter
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We've been all over those passages already. Or most of them at least. Especially Ezekiel. They get sloughed every time.