glorydaz
Well-known member
Says one little troll to the other. :rotfl:
Do you have to believe in the Trinity to be a Christian?
- Thread starter Bright Raven
- Start date
Says one little troll to the other. :rotfl:
PPS, don't get me wrong, I sympathize with your obvious "mental lackings."
I'm certain there are times when you feel the issues you're forced to live
with, seem insurmountable, however you must, at all costs, gather your
thoughts and reassure yourself: "I'm not alone."
I'm certain there are times when you feel the issues you're forced to live
with, seem insurmountable, however you must, at all costs, gather your
thoughts and reassure yourself: "I'm not alone."
Amen!
I appreciate your sentiment. However, you still owe me twenty bucks.
1Mind1Spirit
Literal lunatic
You still are not hearing the points which have been made. You are out of my "loop" of available information from which to formulate doctrine. Neither I myself, nor anyone else here, nor any of the apostolic writers including the author of the Epistle to the Hebrews was on any "prior earth" to hear the statement when the Father spoke it to Yeshua. Do you not see where the scribes accuse him of blasphemy for sending away/forgiving sins? This is because the Kohen Gadol was the only person on earth at the time vested with the authority from on High to send away/forgive sins, (and that was only once in a year at Yom Kippurim Atonements). If you are correct in your doctrine then the scribes were indeed correct in that Yeshua was usurping the authority of the Kohen Gadol without the Testimony of the Father to back up what things he did during his physical ministry recorded in the Gospel accounts, (see for example Matthew 9:2-6). It is UNRIGHTEOUS for a man to simply come along and usurp the authority of God vested in the High Priest through the Torah and then for others to be condemned simply for not believing him. Again, you have eliminated the WITNESS of the Father spoken at the immersion of Yeshua which bestowed upon him the authority and right to do what things the Father did through him throughout his "earthly" ministry. It was not some other "prior earth" but this earth! :crackup:
And it was when he was immersed: and Luke 3:22 clearly states that the Holy One descended in SOMATIKO-BODILY form as a dove!
That's purdy darn close daqq.
Because in Hebrew, to be begotten can mean other things than actual siring or conceiving.
It can be said that David begat Solomon when he declared him to be the next king.
This statement by God at Yeshua's immersion is not one of actually siring his son.
God bestowing the priesthood on him is part of what God was saying there.:thumb:
That verse has absolutely nothing to do with proving or disproving the trinity doctrine or when the son of God came into actual existence..
1Mind1Spirit
Literal lunatic
This is true.
I will add the virgin birth is true as well.
Unless you have something explaining why mother Jerusalem cant be a chaste virgin?
1Mind1Spirit
Literal lunatic
No Sis.
I wasn't picking on Totton.
It's kinda like you said, I didn't have enough time to answer in a way I would like to have.
Most folks wont listen to Barnabas' epistle cause it didn't make the cut to get in the bible.
He said, God said to the Son, let us make man in our image.
Then another reason I believe God's son was with him before creation is this.....
If no man can see God and live, who were Adam and Eve hiding from in the garden?
I will unashamedly say it was God's son.
And if God said to his son, let us make man in our image, what is their image if not father and son?
It was mentioned to RT when he brought this up that perhaps this was for another thread but if the issue is forced it is not like I am unable to discuss it. However what does impact Trinitarianism is the fact that the only begotten Son of YHWH preexisted the man Yeshua. They therefore were not the same "person" before the immersion of the man Yeshua. The virgin birth accounts are allegories containing critical spiritual truths which run throughout the whole of Scripture from the very beginning but will never be understood of one forces the virgin birth into a rigid literal physical carnal reality. The virgin birth accounts not only serve to attract the gentile world but are also written in such a way that one may continue growing out of that "mothers milk" if the same continues in the doctrine of Yeshua while gleaning the supernal truths that are contained in those accounts, (without ever the need to deny the true "supernal kernels" and meanings of what is written in those accounts). Likewise, just as the parables, such things also serve to keep those who are fakes, frauds, phonies, and haters on the outside. Concerning the immersion the Father says in Matthew, "THIS is My Son", yet in Mark and Luke we read, "YOU are My Son", and yet moreover there are surely a minimum of three plunges or "dips" in this immersion. So when Yochanan sees a great light roundabout the whole place thereof, (original Matthew sources from patristic quotes) he then stops Yeshua in the midst of going through the immersion process, (and this "stopping in the midst" is GSN#1254 "diakoluo", GSN1223+GSN2967, in Matthew 3:14). After the first plunge or dip Yochanan stops Yeshua, and says to him, "Who are you Master? I have need to be immersed under you; and you come to me?" and so the Witness, (the Immerser) interrupts the immersion process. But when Yeshua continues the plunges of immersion, after the interruption, the Father then speaks from the heavens again. The question then becomes, how many statements are there seeing that we have the three Synoptic accounts which mention a statement? And if there are multiple statements then which ones go where in a three-plunge immersion process? To whom is, "THIS is My Son", spoken to? Clearly the other statement, "YOU are My Son", is spoken to the man Yeshua. The answers to these questions imply that the Father may have been speaking of the Dove which was descending from the heavens when He says, "THIS is My Son". The only begotten Son of God was not the one born in that day, that one is he that descends from the heavens like a dove, but the man Yeshua was indeed born from above in that day and the Son of God remained-abode with-in-upon him, (Emmanuel). The two different statements from the several different plunges of the immersion have now apparently been conflated, mixed, and entangled, (though they can still be untangled through the study of immersion and patristic statements). As for being a virgin, yes, of course I agree, YosefandraMaria was a virgin and the seed of faith and the Word was planted in the fertile soil of the heart when the Malak of YHWH appeared and the words spoken in Matthew and Luke were faithfully trusted, (an accounting of uprightness or righteousness like as father Abraham acted out).
Zeke
Well-known member
Nothing new about the Esoteric interpretation, the false historical tradition that spawned the virgin birth as being factual (instead of the inward incarnation of the second born from above) is the real new hybridized theological god spell that has put the christian into the literal trance of servitude.
Yep, people forget that when Paul is accused of being the new "ringleader" of the sect of the Nazar-ESSENES he does not deny it but essentially affirms it, (especially if one knows who exactly Paul really is). Paul warns all of his readers not to walk according to the flesh and yet it seems that most all of those claiming the most loudly to be followers of Paul and "his gospel" do indeed walk according to the flesh in all of their understanding, (and if you try to tell them any differently you must be a "Gnostic heretic"). As soon as one steps back into the realm of the flesh in his or her understanding the person may as well be as dead as the doctrine they are spouting because the grammati of the physical nature kills. :crackup:
Hebrews 12:18-23
18. For you are not come unto a mount that might be touched, [Sinai] and that burned with fire, and unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest:
19. and the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words; which voice they that heard entreated that no word more should be spoken unto them:
20. for they could not endure that which was enjoined, If even a beast touch the mountain, it shall be stoned:
21. and so fearful was the appearance, that Moshe said, I exceedingly fear and quake:
22. but you are come unto mount Zion, and unto the city of the Living Elohim, the heavenly Yerushalaim, and to innumerable hosts of angels:
23. to the general assembly and congregation of firstborn sons having been written-enrolled in the heavens, and to Elohim the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect:
Pure Essene theology, (whether it is Paul or not) . . .
PneumaPsucheSoma
TOL Subscriber
Your assessments are invalid, ya demented old geezer novice and heretic.
PneumaPsucheSoma
TOL Subscriber
...says the loud-mouth weaker vessel heretic lunatic.
1Mind1Spirit
Literal lunatic
It was mentioned to RT when he brought this up that perhaps this was for another thread but if the issue is forced it is not like I am unable to discuss it. However what does impact Trinitarianism is the fact that the only begotten Son of YHWH preexisted the man Yeshua. They therefore were not the same "person" before the immersion of the man Yeshua. The virgin birth accounts are allegories containing critical spiritual truths which run throughout the whole of Scripture from the very beginning but will never be understood of one forces the virgin birth into a rigid literal physical carnal reality. The virgin birth accounts not only serve to attract the gentile world but are also written in such a way that one may continue growing out of that "mothers milk" if the same continues in the doctrine of Yeshua while gleaning the supernal truths that are contained in those accounts, (without ever the need to deny the true "supernal kernels" and meanings of what is written in those accounts). Likewise, just as the parables, such things also serve to keep those who are fakes, frauds, phonies, and haters on the outside. Concerning the immersion the Father says in Matthew, "THIS is My Son", yet in Mark and Luke we read, "YOU are My Son", and yet moreover there are surely a minimum of three plunges or "dips" in this immersion. So when Yochanan sees a great light roundabout the whole place thereof, (original Matthew sources from patristic quotes) he then stops Yeshua in the midst of going through the immersion process, (and this "stopping in the midst" is GSN#1254 "diakoluo", GSN1223+GSN2967, in Matthew 3:14). After the first plunge or dip Yochanan stops Yeshua, and says to him, "Who are you Master? I have need to be immersed under you; and you come to me?" and so the Witness, (the Immerser) interrupts the immersion process. But when Yeshua continues the plunges of immersion, after the interruption, the Father then speaks from the heavens again. The question then becomes, how many statements are there seeing that we have the three Synoptic accounts which mention a statement? And if there are multiple statements then which ones go where in a three-plunge immersion process? To whom is, "THIS is My Son", spoken to? Clearly the other statement, "YOU are My Son", is spoken to the man Yeshua. The answers to these questions imply that the Father may have been speaking of the Dove which was descending from the heavens when He says, "THIS is My Son". The only begotten Son of God was not the one born in that day, that one is he that descends from the heavens like a dove, but the man Yeshua was indeed born from above in that day and the Son of God remained-abode with-in-upon him, (Emmanuel). The two different statements from the several different plunges of the immersion have now apparently been conflated, mixed, and entangled, (though they can still be untangled through the study of immersion and patristic statements). As for being a virgin, yes, of course I agree, YosefandraMaria was a virgin and the seed of faith and the Word was planted in the fertile soil of the heart when the Malak of YHWH appeared and the words spoken in Matthew and Luke were faithfully trusted, (an accounting of uprightness or righteousness like as father Abraham acted out).
on the spiritual and thanks for the info on the immersion process, brother.
good post
1Mind1Spirit
Literal lunatic
Hey Rainee, I've learned that the most important thing to know when wrestling with the Lord is not to turn loose of Him.
IMJerusha
New member
Tottie, could you please put that which is Scripture in quotation marks so that His Word can be differentiated from your own word and context can be reviewed?
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IMJerusha
New member
The point of this is that if we deny Yeshua, we deny God. This does not mean that Yeshua is the Father.
That is true. They are distinct personalities.
IMJerusha
New member
I've not seen the "merely human" words used. I think there's a lot of usage of the word "God" that is getting confused.
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