And that is how and why the man Yeshua is the first to genuinely and fully partake of the Divine nature; becoming the Captain or Author of what true "salvation" really means. The Divine nature descended upon the man Yeshua at his immersion under Yochanan when the Son descended from the heavens in the somatiko-bodily form of a dove, (for all flesh is not the same flesh as Paul clearly teaches us). Anyone who denies that the Divine Son of God descended in somatikos-bodily form therefore denies that the Mashiah YHWH has come in flesh, (for all flesh is not the same flesh: if there is a soma psuchikos, then there is a soma pneumatikos).
Do you have to believe in the Trinity to be a Christian?
- Thread starter Bright Raven
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And that is how and why the man Yeshua is the first to genuinely and fully partake of the Divine nature; becoming the Captain or Author of what true "salvation" really means. The Divine nature descended upon the man Yeshua at his immersion under Yochanan when the Son descended from the heavens in the somatiko-bodily form of a dove, (for all flesh is not the same flesh as Paul clearly teaches us). Anyone who denies that the Divine Son of God descended in somatikos-bodily form therefore denies that the Mashiah YHWH has come in flesh, (for all flesh is not the same flesh: if there is a soma psuchikos, then there is a soma pneumatikos).
PneumaPsucheSoma
TOL Subscriber
No. Our phenomenal existence is not eternal nor pre-existent to our initial spiration of life in the womb, which includes our physicality.
Our beginning is at spirit/body joining in procreation at conception/implantation.
RevTestament
New member
Obviously not.
No
Don't know where you get that from...I don't insist that at all. How could the Son be resurrected again by referring to the future?
The answer is staring you in the face in the verses you cited - "6 As he saith also in another place."
I agree totally, which is why the Nicene Creed is wrong by trying to tell man that Christ was begotten before all ages or worlds. The creeds make Christ unbegotten, and make the Word of God of none effect. If the scriptures at the time had said Christ was begotten at his baptism as you insist, this debate would never have raged for the century or so it had. The truth is the scriptures never said that as you insist. It was left mostly open that God could do His strange work.
Not if the Father had spoken these words to His Son at His prior resurrection - being that here He was raised "again."
Yeshua too said He was to be raised again according to the KJV as the word had the connotation of repeated rising as from daily sleep.
They have indeed, which is why I tell you the truth that Yahoshuah was raised again. And since He came into this world as the only begotten Son, He was obviously begotten "in another place" and thus was already a member of the priesthood in the same order as Melchizedek was.
To restate, He was begotten as the Son on a prior earth.
Just as this is not the only world that God has created, and not the only world He will create.
Isaiah 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
Zeke
Well-known member
Conscience existed prior to our incarnation, we are part of that eternal Conscience, the first Adam carries the Seed/Spark of the Second Adam a life giving Spirit that Jesus represented in man a temple made without hands Galatians 4:26, not a observable spirit among flesh and blood that John/Moses represented Matt 11:11, all allegorical and Esoteric about the inward wrestling Gen 32:30 and none observable Luke 17:20-21.
RevTestament
New member
:thumb:
Hey Zeke, I agree with you basically! Except we can progress from whence we came if we undertake the promises...
You still are not hearing the points which have been made. You are out of my "loop" of available information from which to formulate doctrine. Neither I myself, nor anyone else here, nor any of the apostolic writers including the author of the Epistle to the Hebrews was on any "prior earth" to hear the statement when the Father spoke it to Yeshua. Do you not see where the scribes accuse him of blasphemy for sending away/forgiving sins? This is because the Kohen Gadol was the only person on earth at the time vested with the authority from on High to send away/forgive sins, (and that was only once in a year at Yom Kippurim Atonements). If you are correct in your doctrine then the scribes were indeed correct in that Yeshua was usurping the authority of the Kohen Gadol without the Testimony of the Father to back up what things he did during his physical ministry recorded in the Gospel accounts, (see for example Matthew 9:2-6). It is UNRIGHTEOUS for a man to simply come along and usurp the authority of God vested in the High Priest through the Torah and then for others to be condemned simply for not believing him. Again, you have eliminated the WITNESS of the Father spoken at the immersion of Yeshua which bestowed upon him the authority and right to do what things the Father did through him throughout his "earthly" ministry. It was not some other "prior earth" but this earth! :crackup:
And it was when he was immersed: and Luke 3:22 clearly states that the Holy One descended in SOMATIKO-BODILY form as a dove!
RevTestament
New member
You speak of the creation of our soul.
But where does this spirit come from? God did not create it from the dust, but "blew" Adam's spirit into him.
Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
PneumaPsucheSoma
TOL Subscriber
This is Adoptionism. And it isn't the "how" any more than Classic Trinitarianism, Sabellianism, Arianism, Binitarianism, or many other historical formulaics.
The divine nature (physis) didn't descend on Christ at His baptism. The very term physis would preclude that, since "physical" is drawn from it in direct derivation.
If one understands the hypostatic conception in Mary's womb, other explanations are not necessary (including Adoptionism).
Do you find it difficult to speak to your fellow posters in words
that everyone is able to understand? You seem like a guy who
thinks highly of himself and wants others to give him the
adoration he feels he deserves. In other words, why not tone
down the fancy word phrases a bit? I'll bet you spend your
weekends holding up a sign that says: "Look at me, I'm smart."
PneumaPsucheSoma
TOL Subscriber
No. Conscience is a faculty of the human spirit that is breathed into us at conception through procreation as mediate creation. Our spiration at conception is our inception. Nothing phenomenal of us has any reality of existence before spiration and filiation in the (physical) womb.
No. We are spirated with a human spirit that is capable of communion WITH the eternal conscience of God. Intuition is the means of such communion, all three being faculties of our being (ousia) as individuals (hypostases) with an outward physical appearance (prosopon).
You should learn of Anthropology Proper rather than occultic esoteriscist speculative nonsense.
No. The first Adam spiritually died, bringing forth sin and its wages as physical death. The second Adam came to redeem us from all that.
No. Not a false binary of either/or. Both.
Your false esotericism won't accomplish it. Only the hypostatic union which results from faith. You hybridize the actual Gospel with new age pseudo-mysticism and humanism.
PneumaPsucheSoma
TOL Subscriber
If you don't like my posts or my style of expression, don't read them or respond to them.
That should be simple enough for an arrogant ignoramus like you, Gramps. But some aren't illiterate like you, Grossy. Others have multiple functional brain cells.
PneumaPsucheSoma
TOL Subscriber
Yes. Mediate creation, spirated through parents as procreation.
This needs correlation of pneuma/psuche/soma to hypostasis/ousia/physis/prosopon and other facets.
Man became a living soul by God spirating the breath (spirit) of life within the body.
Aspiration, respiration, expiration. Birth, life, death. All relative to the physis (nature) of our ousia (being). But the hypostasis underlies the ousia and its physis.
Anthropology Proper is crucial, just as is Theology Proper.
RevTestament
New member
I have heard your "points" and have scripturally refuted them.
Perhaps you need to expand your loop to accept more of the Word.
And I suppose you reject the words of Isaiah that you will be on a subsequent world in which this one will not be remembered?
You assume that the Kohen Gadol still had that authority, but I say He did not, but that it was a figure of the true authority to come, since it was necessary for Christ to go in spirit after His crucifixion to the spirit world in order to teach the unrighteous spirits that they could have an opportunity to be resurrected with Him. 1 Peter 3; John 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
Further, the "Kohen Gadol" appointed by Rome did not have that authority, as he was not appointed by God. Sometime after Moses and Aaron, the High priesthood was taken from the earth until the days of Jesus. It was obviously not operational by the time of Antiochus Epiphanes, and the temple was desecrated. To underline that fact, under the Maccabees the High Priest became a Roman appointment, rather than an appointment recognized and chosen by God. To even further underline that fact, Judaism is left without an earthly temple or an earthly Kohen Gadol.
As I have indicated by the time of Jesus, the Kohen Gadol was not vested with authority from God and the Torah, but from Rome... Jesus did not simply usurp the authority of God, as He was the legal representative of the Father per the law and the manifestation of the power of the High Priesthood. He plainly spoke who He was, and was not accepted. Jesus was baptized to fulfill all righteousness as our example, and not in order to be begotten, as that occurred at His resurrection according to the plain words of Acts. Since He was begotten as the Son in His resurrection, and yet was declared as the Son of the Father from the beginning and at His baptism, He obviously was begotten as the Son in His prior resurrection.
According to the Codex Bezae? :crackup: Sorry, it is vice versa. I prove the witness.
Here you are improperly mixing scripture. Jesus is the Holy One of the Father and Israel per scripture. He cannot descend upon Himself........And it was when he was immersed: and Luke 3:22 clearly states that the Holy One descended in SOMATIKO-BODILY form as a dove!
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I see that I've gotten you angry and out of sorts. I realize you have
sensitivities that go beyond the norm. Perhaps, you ought to seek
counseling? When you get upset, there's a tendency for you to lash
out like some dim-witted misanthrope. Does that interfere with your
home life? I certainly hope you don't have aggressive issues that,
cause you undue stress? I've known you for a while and I see a
very insecure little man with very low self esteem. Sorry, but I
call them what I see them. You feel inferior so you compensate
by using words/phrases you've gotten off the Internet. This helps
you to put yourself in a better light. It's called: "Pseudo-intellectuality."
I wish the best for you. Please get some counseling?
PneumaPsucheSoma
TOL Subscriber
LOL. Your lame attempts at cognitive assessment are as hilarious as your false theology. I'm not angry in the least; and since I find my worth in Christ alone, I'm neither insecure nor arrogant.
You're just an annoying bigoted heretic attempting to validate thousands of meaningless drive-by posts with no content.
Your assessment above is a self-assessment from projecting. Let us know if you ever get the counseling you're recommending.
That is "God-man" theology with its foundation based in taking allegories, parables, idioms, "old wives tales", "Jewish fables", (i.e. "virgin births") and making them into the literal physical realities of a carnal mindset. Mariam is the final typology of Jerusalem of above, (the "women" are the cities are the covenants, Galatians 4:22-26). Man is the earth; both the erets-outer-bounds-commons-profane, and the fertile adamah-soil of the heart, (Parable of the Sower). The earth brings forth fruit of herself; first the garden, (feminine) then the stalk (masculine) then the full head of grain in the stalk. Therefore every upright genealogy of the holy seed line is father to son because those born of Elohim are not born of women but of the SEED of the WORD of Elohim.
Bonus Material:
))Matthew 2:23-3:1
23. And he came and dwelt in a city called Nazareth: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophets, He shall be called Nazaraios.
1. Moreover in the selfsame days [En de tais hemerais ekeinais] came Yochanan the Immerser preaching in the desert of Yhudah:
Gross loves himself. 18000 posts of drivel.
Do not be too hard on him, he is lost.
LA
Luke 3:22 W/H
καὶ καταβῆναι τὸ πνεῦμα τὸ ἅγιον σωματικῷ εἴδει ὡς περιστερὰν ἐπ' αὐτόν, καὶ φωνὴν ἐξ οὐρανοῦ γενέσθαι Σὺ εἶ ὁ υἱός μου ὁ ἀγαπητός, ἐν σοὶ εὐδόκησα.
http://biblehub.com/text/luke/3-22.htm
If you want to be strictly literal without dropping anything these are your options:
1) "τὸ πνεῦμα τὸ ἅγιον" ~ "the Holy the Spirit"
2) "τὸ πνεῦμα τὸ ἅγιον" ~ "the Spirit the Holy"
3) "τὸ πνεῦμα τὸ ἅγιον" ~ "the Holy One the Spirit"
4) "τὸ πνεῦμα τὸ ἅγιον" ~ "the Spirit [of] the Holy One"
Neither is my understanding improper mixing as he is called "Qdowsh Yisra'el".
Go ask HaNavi Yeshayahu thirty times over about the Holy One Yisrael . . .
I see you're in "self-denial" as well! You're projecting your instabilities
onto me. It seems you're worse off than I originally thought!
glorydaz
Well-known member
I keep thinking you can't get any more ignorant or arrogant, and you keep proving me wrong. :chuckle: