Do you have to believe in the Trinity to be a Christian?

[Lon]

And then they turn right around and say He is.

So does John 1:1 and 14. You are going to HAVE to believe it one day

You should live by your own advice.

As with above, I do, you don't. You really don't. I REALLY wish I could wake you up to facts. You don't pay attention to scripture so of course you don't pay attention to me.... If I could JUST get a few of you to understand sentence diagramming and structure I'd be a VERY happy man.

You still are not listening.
The Bible does not teach the Trinity.

Look young pup. I received A's in school, especially language. When you post your grades and can contend on the collegiate level with appropriate grades to qualify, I'll begin to listen. Until such a time, listen to your smarter and betters.

What you have been doing is not showing the Bible teaches the Trinity, you are merely showing the proof texts commonly used to show that the Trinity is hidden in the Bible.

Okay, this is pure assertion from one A student to whatever you are: You are wrong. If you ever got an A, I'd slap your teacher for being inept because you didn't learn a thing: Scripture IS clear on Father, Son, and Spirit as One God. Clear. It is a 'shame' you miss that. As a reminder, 99.7% of Christians disagree with you AND a LOT of them are smarter than you (and some me).

Can you be a dunce and still be saved? Yes BUT being arrogant about what you cannot possibly know AND asserting about your pay-grade/school-grades is lying behavior, both to yourself and others. THAT is cause for "genuine" concern. Christ can save the deluded as well. He saved Philip who was a bit of an Arian/Unitarian dunce (John 14) at the time. He WAS correctable. His Savior corrected his Arian/Unitarian stupidity:
John 10:30
John 14:7If you had known me, you would have known my Father also. From now on you do know him and have seen him."
John 14:8 Philip said to him, "Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us."
John 14:9 Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you so long, and you still do not know me, Philip? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'?

Where did I say I was Unitarian?

Arian or Unitarian by your arguments. I don't believe you are Arian (JW) and are certainly some form of Unitarian.

 

[genuineoriginal]

I think you are. However, I want to hear it from you.

Are you aware that the scriptures support a Unitarian belief, a Binitarian belief, a Trinitarian belief, and even a Nonitarian belief, in that order when considering the number of verses that can be used to support each belief?

I will not attempt to condemn someone that has a Unitarian belief, since it is obvious that the most basic reading of scripture will lead to that belief.

I will not attempt to condemn someone that has a Trinitarian belief since this is taught in almost all Christian denominations.

I will chuckle at someone that tries to defend a Nonitarian belief (Father, Son, and seven Spirits), because it is the hardest belief to justify using scripture.

 

[genuineoriginal]

I received A's in school, especially language.

So you passed school with all A's and didn't actually learn anything?

If you ever got an A, I'd slap your teacher for being inept because you didn't learn a thing

Did any of your teachers press charges against you after you slapped them?

 

[Omniskeptical]

It is irrelevant what you believe. It is in the scripture.

You are mistaken. It is irrelevant if you believe in God, you must trust God. You have taken the statement out of context. It does not matter if I murder someone and I believe in God; it matters if I trust God and I don't murder.

Thou doesn't even know what the New Testament really states and what it means.

 

[Omniskeptical]

So you passed school with all A's and didn't actually learn anything?

Of course, he didn't. He's a typical know less than 10 percent of Greek-"Greek scholar".

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

So does John 1:1 and 14. You are going to HAVE to believe it one day




As with above, I do, you don't. You really don't. I REALLY wish I could wake you up to facts. You don't pay attention to scripture so of course you don't pay attention to me.... If I could JUST get a few of you to understand sentence diagramming and structure I'd be a VERY happy man.


Look young pup. I received A's in school, especially language. When you post your grades and can contend on the collegiate level with appropriate grades to qualify, I'll begin to listen. Until such a time, listen to your smarter and betters.


Okay, this is pure assertion from one A student to whatever you are: You are wrong. If you ever got an A, I'd slap your teacher for being inept because you didn't learn a thing: Scripture IS clear on Father, Son, and Spirit as One God. Clear. It is a 'shame' you miss that. As a reminder, 99.7% of Christians disagree with you AND a LOT of them are smarter than you (and some me).

Can you be a dunce and still be saved? Yes BUT being arrogant about what you cannot possibly know AND asserting about your pay-grade/school-grades is lying behavior, both to yourself and others. THAT is cause for "genuine" concern. Christ can save the deluded as well. He saved Philip who was a bit of an Arian/Unitarian dunce (John 14) at the time. He WAS correctable. His Savior corrected his Arian/Unitarian stupidity:
John 10:30
John 14:7 If you had known me, you would have known my Father also. From now on you do know him and have seen him."
John 14:8 Philip said to him, "Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us."
John 14:9 Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you so long, and you still do not know me, Philip? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'?

Excellent post Lon

 

[Bright Raven]

You are mistaken. It is irrelevant if you believe in God, you must trust God. You have taken the statement out of context. It does not matter if I murder someone and I believe in God; it matters if I trust God and I don't murder.

Thou doesn't even know what the New Testament really states and what it means.

Then I guess that you do not believe in God huh? Do you trust and believe?

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Of course, he didn't. He's a typical know less than 10 percent of Greek-"Greek scholar".

You sure are a "whiny" little guy.

 

[Omniskeptical]

You're not much of a "Wordsmith" are you?

A prude is someone who gives moral advice which totally lacking. Did you have trouble applying that word to theekself?

 

[Omniskeptical]

You sure are a "whiny" little guy.

Do you have any proof Greek scholars know the language well? Graville Sharp Rules are proof they don't have a clue.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Are you aware that the scriptures support a Unitarian belief, a Binitarian belief, a Trinitarian belief, and even a Nonitarian belief, in that order when considering the number of verses that can be used to support each belief?

I will not attempt to condemn someone that has a Unitarian belief, since it is obvious that the most basic reading of scripture will lead to that belief.

I will not attempt to condemn someone that has a Trinitarian belief since this is taught in almost all Christian denominations.

I will chuckle at someone that tries to defend a Nonitarian belief (Father, Son, and seven Spirits), because it is the hardest belief to justify using scripture.

So, is this, your way of admitting to belonging to the "Unitarian Cult?"

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Do you have any proof Greek scholars know the language well? Graville Sharp Rules are proof they don't have a clue.

What's that have to do with you being a "Whiny little guy?"

 

[Omniskeptical]

Then I guess that you do not believe in God huh? Do you trust and believe?

I don't believe in your idolatry. I trust and obey. Most people do so.

 

[Bright Raven]

I don't believe in your idolatry. I trust and obey. Most people do so.

Idolatry?

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

A prude is someone who gives moral advice which totally lacking. Did you have trouble applying that word to theekself?

What does, "theekself" mean in the English language?

 

[Omniskeptical]

What's that have to do with you being a "Whiny little guy?"

Prudeatrol:

 

[Lon]

So you passed school with all A's and didn't actually learn anything?

And have taught it. YOU stand corrected, repeatedly, blow hard arrogant maverick.

Did any of your teachers press charges against you after you slapped them?

You are retorting with compensation, digression, and smoke-screen to your actual grades. What is worse? I certainly do equate the lack as both a reasonable and spiritual lack. A bunch of you really shouldn't be trying to teach anything with substandard grades AND you should be listening a lot more than speaking and paying attention to those who are your betters. I certainly do AND I have those good grades!

 

[Lon]

Of course, he didn't. He's a typical know less than 10 percent of Greek-"Greek scholar".

Sad. You don't know any so I don't know why you are trying to compare. 10% is a fairly decent grasp of Greek, honestly, so you are giving me quite a bit for accolade than you realize, and obviously showing your lack thereof

Do you have any proof Greek scholars know the language well? Graville Sharp Rules are proof they don't have a clue.

You are stuck with commentary and concordance work. Such is less than even a kindergarten/first year course. You are reiterating a 'commentary' here, a poor one. You can trust another non-scholarly non-collegiate but then it is just a Unitarian high school club, isn't it? When is lauding substandard academic pursuit and dedication subject to scrutiny by God and the Church? When does being a dupe cross the line when you can no longer claim 'foolish things to confound the wise?' IOW, weren't the Bereans 'more noble' because they studied harder than the deadbeats, ignorant, and lazy? Yes or no?

Sadly, you are on sabbatical again for poor behavior so can't answer

The low-brow basal mentality is unfortunately prevalent in the Unitarian club.

 

[Lon]

Are you aware that the scriptures support a Unitarian belief, a Binitarian belief, a Trinitarian belief, and even a Nonitarian belief, in that order when considering the number of verses that can be used to support each belief?

No, he nor I am aware of that because is premature and incomplete. That kind of theology is good for no one. It is childish.

I will not attempt to condemn someone that has a Unitarian belief, since it is obvious that the most basic reading of scripture will lead to that belief.

"...in your estimation." What good is that? Why is your self-introspection proffered as gospel? Why do you suffer yourself those qualifications. Does not your 'theory' stand in the way of man and God, and between your own imperialized self and Him as well? Do you want people to have to wade through your dross to get to God? Everyone who opposes what is given as Orthodox does this. Have you prayed about that? I pray a LOT over everything I ever hold different than the church. With a LOT of humility, I tell people I differ with most and that I will not argue with them over the difference. I ask them to take the digression as a digression and with prayer and my departures aren't over pertinent orthodox matters! You, however, are against what is orthodox.

I will not attempt to condemn someone that has a Trinitarian belief since this is taught in almost all Christian denominations.

Not only taught, blatantly clear in scripture. How can they but?

When you, yourself, go against orthodoxy, you should understand why such is arrogant, prideful, willful, and maverick. There are right and correct responses to rocking the boat so much that the boat is in danger of tipping over.

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

I don't think that would help my argument.

My position is that belief or disbelief in the Trinity is not necessary for salvation.

The proof of the validity of my argument comes from scriptural statements that confuse the issue of whether there is a Trinity or not.

This is misunderstood by Trinity believers since I end up using the exact same scriptures used by people that reject the doctrine of the Trinity, so they have a knee-jerk response and start arguing for something I am not arguing against.

For my argument, it does not matter whether I personally believe in the Trinity, the Binity, the Unity, or even the Noninity.
(There is scriptural support for each of these beliefs, as you are probably already aware.)

My argument is about what is actually taught in scripture in regards to whether you must believe in the Trinity to be saved or whether you can be saved without believing in the Trinity.

All the responses that have attempted to address my argument end up falling short for a very good reason: There is nothing in the Bible that states or even suggests that it is necessary to believe in the Trinity in order to be saved.

But beyond the topic of this thread (and I agree that specific belief in the Classic Trinity is certainly not the salvific "threshold"), it would be helpful to know your Theology Proper position overall in multiple discussions on TOL.

I'm a bit confused (and mildly put off) by your reluctance to "identify" yourself. It makes meaningful discussion or processing your comments all the more difficult.

At least you clearly and concisely defining deity would help, including both what it IS and what it IS NOT.