beloved57
Well-known member
You are right!
Did God Predestinate some to Hell/Wrath ?
- Thread starter beloved57
- Start date
You are right!
You try to interpret scripture in the light of Calvinism, but it doesn't interpret properly because it is a false doctrine.
Scripture can only be interpreted in the light of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, which you reject.
beloved57
Well-known member
It never fails, when you are given scripture, you oppose and or evade it ! But I expect it, God has sent you a strong delusion to believe a lie.
Nanja
Well-known member
If they are a Vessel of Wrath they are fitted to destruction Rom. 9:22.
Age has nothing to do with it.
~~~~
Nanja
Well-known member
I agree, Brother.
Prov. 16:1
The preparations of the heart in man,
and the answer of the tongue, is from the LORD.
I believe this scripture tells us that God plans and arranges the thoughts and ideas in a person's heart/mind according to His Sovereign Will.
So the degree of punishment of the Vessels of Wrath is determined by the degree of wickedness to which God had prepared their heart / mind.
~~~~~
So a 5 year old can be a vessel of wrath "fitted" to destruction? What a sick cult you follow -
beloved57
Well-known member
You don't accept the truth and speak evil of them who do!
beloved57
Well-known member
They were appointed to disobey the Gospel !
Paul writes in 2 Thess 1:8
In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
This obeying not the Gospel, so that God would be just in taking vengeance upon them, was no accident, no it was part of Gods eternal decree for them.
They're just like the ones Peter describes in 1 Pet 2:7-8
Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed
The word appointed tithémi
means where they were placed, set, or destined, fixed [as in fixed in the counsels of God] established ! Remeber words David wrote of God establishing something Ps 89:4
Thy seed will I establish for ever, and build up thy throne to all generations. Its fixed in the counsels of God ! So were these to obey not the Gospel, it was never for them to obey !
Paul writes in 2 Thess 1:8
In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
This obeying not the Gospel, so that God would be just in taking vengeance upon them, was no accident, no it was part of Gods eternal decree for them.
They're just like the ones Peter describes in 1 Pet 2:7-8
Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed
The word appointed tithémi
means where they were placed, set, or destined, fixed [as in fixed in the counsels of God] established ! Remeber words David wrote of God establishing something Ps 89:4
Thy seed will I establish for ever, and build up thy throne to all generations. Its fixed in the counsels of God ! So were these to obey not the Gospel, it was never for them to obey !
beloved57
Well-known member
They were appointed to disobey the Gospel !2
Those who disobey the Gospel must and will suffer the vengeance of God, or His Wrath, which they were ordained to disobey, as were these jews Peter wrote of 1 Pet 2:8
And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them whichstumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
Their stumbling at the word and disobeying it was appointed by God.
However this is contrasted with those God has not appointed to disobedience and wrath 1 Thess 5:9
For God hath not appointed us [the chosen to salvation 2 Thess 2:13] to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
The word appointed here is the same word appointed in 1 Pet 2:8, which shows God has not ordained some to disobedience and wrath, and vengeance as He did others , but to obtain salvation through Christ their Surety !
Those who disobey the Gospel must and will suffer the vengeance of God, or His Wrath, which they were ordained to disobey, as were these jews Peter wrote of 1 Pet 2:8
And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them whichstumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
Their stumbling at the word and disobeying it was appointed by God.
However this is contrasted with those God has not appointed to disobedience and wrath 1 Thess 5:9
For God hath not appointed us [the chosen to salvation 2 Thess 2:13] to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
The word appointed here is the same word appointed in 1 Pet 2:8, which shows God has not ordained some to disobedience and wrath, and vengeance as He did others , but to obtain salvation through Christ their Surety !
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beloved57
Well-known member
The Sovereign Lord made the wicked for the day of evil !
Prov 16:4
The Lord hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.
Ps 9:16-17
The Lord is known by the judgment which he executeth: the wicked is snared in the work of his own hands. Higgaion. Selah.
The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God.
This is the work of God, the turning the wicked into hell, thats their evil day God has made them. This God settled and determined in the first place Rom 9:13-22
As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
God made the wicked for the dishonour and shame of hell !
Prov 16:4
The Lord hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.
Ps 9:16-17
The Lord is known by the judgment which he executeth: the wicked is snared in the work of his own hands. Higgaion. Selah.
The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God.
This is the work of God, the turning the wicked into hell, thats their evil day God has made them. This God settled and determined in the first place Rom 9:13-22
As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
God made the wicked for the dishonour and shame of hell !
Nanja
Well-known member
Perfectly stated!
God has created a predetermined group of people, the non elect whom He did not love, for the express purpose to demonstrate His Power Rom. 9:17.
Job 21:30
That the wicked is reserved to the day of destruction? they shall be brought forth to the day of wrath.
These wicked are performing the works that God has predestinated them to do in the destruction of their own soul; working against God, blaspheming Him and His Holy Word.
Rev. 4:11
Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.
~~~
beloved57
Well-known member
Amen Sister!
Nanja
Well-known member
True! It's because the lamb's book of life contains only the names of the sinners which were chosen in Christ and predestinated to have forgiveness of sins Eph. 1:4-7, for whom He was the Surety Saviour for Heb. 7:22 in the Everlasting Covenant of Grace before the world began; when in the Mind of God He was the Lamb Slain before the foundation of the world Rev. 13:8. So because the sins of His Sheep Is. 53:6 were imputed to their Great Shepherd instead of them Heb. 13:20, they were declared Righteous in God's sight: His wrath for them was forever appeased, they being reconciled to God while enemies Rom. 5:10.
beloved57
Well-known member
God sends no one to Hell. Men send themselves for not believing in Jesus Christ as Saviour.
Nanja
Well-known member
beloved57
Well-known member
The Old Testament also mentions the Vessels of Wrath fitted for destruction. Mal 1:4
Whereas Edom saith, We are impoverished, but we will return and build the desolate places; thus saith the Lord of hosts, They shall build, but I will throw down; and they shall call them, The border of wickedness, and, The people against whom the Lord hath indignation for ever.
This is a people hated by the Lord, and that forever! It's a eternal indignation.They are a cursed people. Jesus says to them Matt 25:41
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Rom 2:8
But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
These had been appointed to Wrath and indignation, and Condemnation!
Whereas Edom saith, We are impoverished, but we will return and build the desolate places; thus saith the Lord of hosts, They shall build, but I will throw down; and they shall call them, The border of wickedness, and, The people against whom the Lord hath indignation for ever.
This is a people hated by the Lord, and that forever! It's a eternal indignation.They are a cursed people. Jesus says to them Matt 25:41
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Rom 2:8
But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
These had been appointed to Wrath and indignation, and Condemnation!