1.There is never a statement, in the Old Testament, that asserts that God the Father is God.
2. The LORD God wants you to confess it, based upon the evidence He has provided you, everyone, as Thomas, Paul.....................did.
Did God become flesh?
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1.There is never a statement, in the Old Testament, that asserts that God the Father is God.
2. The LORD God wants you to confess it, based upon the evidence He has provided you, everyone, as Thomas, Paul.....................did.
Interesting video. I know that I need to keep my mind intact, but I may have learned something. It is important not to be influenced too much by something that does not make sense.
Of course there are;
John 6:27-29 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed. 28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom He hath sent.
1 Cor 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
Gal 1:1-4 Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead
2 And all the brethren which are with me, unto the churches of Galatia:
3 Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ,
4 Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:
1 Thess 1:1 Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians which is in God the Father and in the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
2 Tim 1:2 To Timothy, my dearly beloved son: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord.
Titus 1:4 To Titus, mine own son after the common faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour.
1 Peter 1:2-3 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
2 Peter 1:17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
2 John 3 Grace be with you, mercy, and peace, from God the Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love.
Jude 1 Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:
John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know Thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom Thou hast sent.
Says no verse ever.johnw said:
There simply are NO passages that state, explain or preach the "Jesus" you proclaim. Rather, there are MANY that state God is the Father.
The simple fact is, the phrase "God the Father" establishes this.
There are ZERO texts that say "God the son", or "God the spirit".
You missed it.Slower:
There is never a statement, in the Old Testament, that says that God the Father is God. Show us that statement in the OT.
There is never a statement, that says that you are saved.Show us your name in the book.
There is never a statement, that says God the Father, as the LORD God, appeared to men.
There is never a statement that says that God is omniscient.
There is never a statement, that says that the LORD God can extend to a man, His same attributes, such as all knowing, being able to rise from the dead, sinless,.............
No-do you want to continue with your sophistry?
Translation: You are a deceiver, not paying attention to others' arguments, and not here to persuade, but just here to assert, pound the table, declare "victory," or, you are intoxicated-no other option.
Those verses that you cite above, are not OT verses.
You are right!! I DID read that wrong.
So this is a "testament appropriate" list;
Isa 63:16-17 For thou art our Father, though Abraham knoweth us not, and Israel doth not acknowledge us: thou, O Jehovah, art our Father; our Redeemer from everlasting is thy name.
17 O Jehovah, why dost thou make us to err from thy ways, and hardenest our heart from thy fear? Return for thy servants' sake, the tribes of thine inheritance.
Isa 64:8 But now, O Jehovah, thou art our Father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand.
This is pretty silly.Johnw said:
This would only be a valid point IF I claimed that the Scriptures state that I personally am saved.
Of course there is;Johnw said:
Ex 33:17-23 And Jehovah said unto Moses, I will do this thing also that thou hast spoken; for thou hast found favor in my sight, and I know thee by name.
18 And he said, Show me, I pray thee, thy glory.
19 And He said, I will make all My goodness pass before thee, and will proclaim the name of Jehovah before thee; and I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will show mercy on whom I will show mercy.
20 And He said, Thou canst not see my face; for man shall not see Me and live.
21 and Jehovah said, Behold, there is a place by Me, and thou shalt stand upon the rock:
22 and it shall come to pass, while My glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a cleft of the rock, and will cover thee with My hand until I have passed by:
23 and I will take away My hand, and thou shalt see My back; but My face shall not be seen.
Ex 34:5-7 And Jehovah descended in the cloud, and stood with him there, and proclaimed the name of Jehovah.
6 And Jehovah passed by before him, and proclaimed, Jehovah, Jehovah, a God merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and abundant in lovingkindness and truth,
7 keeping lovingkindness for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin; and that will by no means clear (the guilty), visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, upon the third and upon the fourth generation.
Ex 34:29-30 And it came to pass, when Moses came down from mount Sinai with the two tables of the testimony in Moses' hand, when he came down from the mount, that Moses knew not that the skin of his face shone by reason of his speaking with Him.
30 And when Aaron and all the children of Israel saw Moses, behold, the skin of his face shone; and they were afraid to come nigh him.
True.Johnw said:
"Omniscient" is a man-made term, and therefore isn't very useful for discussing God.
[/quote=Johnw]There is never a statement, that says that the LORD God can extend to a man, His same attributes, such as all knowing, being able to rise from the dead, sinless,.............[/quote]Your attempt, to carefully word these demands is a transparent attempt to overcome your utter lack of Scripture that States your doctrine, or that Explains or Preaches to ANY audience, ANYWHERE in the Scriptures either a trinitarian "Jesus" or a oneness "Jesus", whichever error you happen to believe.
do you want to continue with your sophistry?
drbrumley
Well-known member
Isa 63:16-17 For thou art our Father, though Abraham knoweth us not, and Israel doth not acknowledge us: thou, O (Jesus), art our Father; our Redeemer from everlasting is thy name.
17 O (Jesus), why dost thou make us to err from thy ways, and hardenest our heart from thy fear? Return for thy servants' sake, the tribes of thine inheritance.
Isa 64:8 But now, O (Jesus), thou art our Father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand.
Ex 33:17-23 And (Jesus) said unto Moses, I will do this thing also that thou hast spoken; for thou hast found favor in my sight, and I know thee by name.
18 And he said, Show me, I pray thee, thy glory.
19 And He said, I will make all My goodness pass before thee, and will proclaim the name of Jehovah before thee; and I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will show mercy on whom I will show mercy.
20 And He said, Thou canst not see my face; for man shall not see Me and live.
21 and (Jesus) said, Behold, there is a place by Me, and thou shalt stand upon the rock:
22 and it shall come to pass, while My glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a cleft of the rock, and will cover thee with My hand until I have passed by:
23 and I will take away My hand, and thou shalt see My back; but My face shall not be seen.
Ex 34:5-7 And (Jesus) descended in the cloud, and stood with him there, and proclaimed the name of Jehovah (Jesus).
6 And (Jesus) passed by before him, and proclaimed, (Jesus), (Jesus), a God merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and abundant in lovingkindness and truth,
7 keeping lovingkindness for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin; and that will by no means clear (the guilty), visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, upon the third and upon the fourth generation.
Ex 34:29-30 And it came to pass, when Moses came down from mount Sinai with the two tables of the testimony in Moses' hand, when he came down from the mount, that Moses knew not that the skin of his face shone by reason of his speaking with Him.
30 And when Aaron and all the children of Israel saw Moses, behold, the skin of his face shone; and they were afraid to come nigh him.
17 O (Jesus), why dost thou make us to err from thy ways, and hardenest our heart from thy fear? Return for thy servants' sake, the tribes of thine inheritance.
Isa 64:8 But now, O (Jesus), thou art our Father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand.
Ex 33:17-23 And (Jesus) said unto Moses, I will do this thing also that thou hast spoken; for thou hast found favor in my sight, and I know thee by name.
18 And he said, Show me, I pray thee, thy glory.
19 And He said, I will make all My goodness pass before thee, and will proclaim the name of Jehovah before thee; and I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will show mercy on whom I will show mercy.
20 And He said, Thou canst not see my face; for man shall not see Me and live.
21 and (Jesus) said, Behold, there is a place by Me, and thou shalt stand upon the rock:
22 and it shall come to pass, while My glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a cleft of the rock, and will cover thee with My hand until I have passed by:
23 and I will take away My hand, and thou shalt see My back; but My face shall not be seen.
Ex 34:5-7 And (Jesus) descended in the cloud, and stood with him there, and proclaimed the name of Jehovah (Jesus).
6 And (Jesus) passed by before him, and proclaimed, (Jesus), (Jesus), a God merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and abundant in lovingkindness and truth,
7 keeping lovingkindness for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin; and that will by no means clear (the guilty), visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, upon the third and upon the fourth generation.
Ex 34:29-30 And it came to pass, when Moses came down from mount Sinai with the two tables of the testimony in Moses' hand, when he came down from the mount, that Moses knew not that the skin of his face shone by reason of his speaking with Him.
30 And when Aaron and all the children of Israel saw Moses, behold, the skin of his face shone; and they were afraid to come nigh him.
2 Peter 3:16 .... some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
Rev 22:18-19 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
Isaiah 63:16 KJV
16 Doubtless thou art our father,though Abraham be ignorant of us,and Israel acknowledge us not:thou, O Lord, art our father, our redeemer;thy name is from everlasting.
You lied-it does not say "God the Father."
What is your motivation, for lying?
Isaiah 64:8 KJV
8 But now, O Lord, thou art our father;we are the clay, and thou our potter;and we all are the work of thy hand.
You lied-it does not say "God the Father."
What is your motivation for lying?
No, you 'argue"-"does not say."
Show us the scripture, that says you are saved, with your name.
He, by his own argument, since scripture does not "say" that God is omniscient, he is not.
ON RECORD.
glorydaz
Well-known member
The reason I believe those verses, as well as the ones you ignore or reject (and, yes, you do reject them) is because I know Jesus is both human and divine. You aren't able to discern when He is speaking in His humanity, and when He is speaking in His DEITY.
None of those says "God the Father," nor can they be-no one has seen God, but the Lord Jesus Christ. The above verses you cite, are not referencing God the Father-they are referring to the Lord Jesus Christ-the LORD God. To wit:
1 John 4 KJV
12 No man hath seen God at any time.
This would be God the Father. Why? Per....
Exodus 24 KJV
9 Then went up Moses, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel: 10 and they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness. 11 And upon the nobles of the children of Israel he laid not his hand: also they saw God, and did eat and drink.
Thus, they saw whom? The God of Israel. Again-whom did they see? Not God the Father:
John 6 KJV
46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.
Which clarifies:
John 1 KJV
18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
So, they, i.e., Moses, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel, saw the God of Israel. But the Lord Jesus Christ in John 6 testifies that no man has seen the Father, except the Son. Whom did Moses, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel, see, as identified as "the God of Israel?"
Guess who? Hint...
Who spoke to Moses through "the burning bush?:"
Exodus 3 KJV
4 And when the Lord saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I. 5 And he said, Draw not nigh hither: put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground.......13 And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them? 14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
Genesis 48 KJV
3 And Jacob said unto Joseph, God Almighty appeared unto me at Luz in the land of Canaan, and blessed me,
Huh? No man has seen God the Father, except the Lord Jesus Christ. And yet Jacob saw "God Almighty"-he appeared unto him.
Whom appeared unto him? It was not God the Father.
Exodus 6 KJV
2 And God spake unto Moses, and said unto him, I am the Lord: 3 and I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.
So, God appeared unto Abraham,unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of "God Almighty." And this same God Almighty, told Moses of a name, never before revealed, until him-JEHOVAH.
What's His name, this God Almighty that appeared unto Abraham, and Issac, and Jacob?It was not God the Father.
Each one of you needs to decide that. I have, did, 20+ years ago. But I cannot answer for you.
Are your reading skills REALLY that bad???
Please explain to me the difference between "God the Father" and "thou, oh Jehovah, art our Father"???
The honest answer is .... there is no difference.
Your bluster, and posturing is a transparent attempt to distract from the UTTER LACK of Scripture that states, explains or preaches your "Jesus".
Right Divider
Body part
No, we don't.
But you won't listen to reasonable explanations.
God Himself answers your protests;
Thou canst not see my face; for man shall not see Me and live. (Ex 33:20)
Many people have seen visions of Jehovah/YHVH God. Many have seen God's shape. But not one mortal has seen God's Face.... which Jehovah explains is to "see Him".
It is impossible for Jesus to be Jehovah, according to Jesus himself;
Deut 18:17-19 And Jehovah said unto me, They have well said that which they have spoken.
18 I will raise them up a prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee; and I will put My words in his mouth, and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.
19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto My words which he shall speak in My name, I will require it of him.
John 12:49-50 For I spake not from myself; but the Father that sent me, He hath given me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
50 And I know that His commandment is life eternal: the things therefore which I speak, even as the Father hath said unto me, so I speak.
1) There is no time when Jesus is DEITY.
2) Your argument creates a massive mess. Jesus didn't lie, but your theory proposes that he denies the truth about himself.
You fail.
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