ECT Definition of "Works Salvation"

[Jerry Shugart]

Faith alone is mentioned only once in the Bible, by James, and James says it is dead and cannot save anyone.

Again, you refuse to believe what is said here:

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (Jn.3:16).​

Jerry Shugart once you all to believe that James taught false beliefs against Jesus; No Jerry Shugart, you are the one who teaches wrong.

James taught that faith alone is how we are saved, the same exact teaching of the Lord Jesus:

"Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures" (James 1:18).​

You misunderstand James' teaching in his second chapter.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

There is no way you would be able to stand as I do if you were treated the way I am by you and your friends.

You are vindictive and mean.

If you cannot stand the heat get out of the kitchen.

 

[God's Truth]

If you cannot stand the heat get out of the kitchen.

What else would an abusive person say?

You cannot stop from exposing what you are.

What else can you do?

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

What else would an abusive person say?

You cannot stop from exposing what you are.

What else can you do?

Thou hypocrite

 

[God's Truth]

Again, you refuse to believe what is said here:

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (Jn.3:16).​

James taught that faith alone is how we are saved, the same exact teaching of the Lord Jesus:

"Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures" (James 1:18).​

You misunderstand James' teaching in his second chapter.

Jesus preached to believe, and repent.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Jesus preached to believe, and repent.

Once again you do not even attempt to answer the verses I give to support my view. You are so brainwashed your mind just blocks them out.

 

[God's Truth]

Once again you do not even attempt to answer the verses I give to support my view. You are so brainwashed your mind just blocks them out.

What exactly is your question and why are you asking what you are asking?

Maybe I misunderstood you and maybe you misunderstand me.

Ask me a question, but tell me what your point is in asking. Maybe that will help clarify.

 

[God's Truth]

Again, you refuse to believe what is said here:

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (Jn.3:16).​

I have explained this to you many times.

All the many scriptures that say we are to believe, they do not nullify the many scriptures that say obey.

Do you understand that?

There is no such thing as faith alone being a salvation type of faith. James says it is dead.

James taught that faith alone is how we are saved, the same exact teaching of the Lord Jesus:

James did NOT teach that. James taught that faith alone is dead and cannot save anyone.

King James Bible
James 2:17 KJV Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

James 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

That dead faith is NOT the most important faith known to humans. It is dead.

"Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures" (James 1:18).​

You misunderstand James' teaching in his second chapter.

You misunderstand James and Paul. Right after Peter says people misunderstand Paul, Peter WARNS us to obey. See 2 Peter 3:16, and 17.

 

[God's Truth]

Once again you do not even attempt to answer the verses I give to support my view. You are so brainwashed your mind just blocks them out.

Listen carefully to what Paul says:

Romans 6:16 PAUL says, "...whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness..."


We ALL are doing works, even before we are saved. We do good works AND BAD WORKS.

We know good from evil.

We either live to please our flesh, which leads to sin; or we are OBEDIENT to Christ, which leads to righteousness.

We have to BELIEVE AND REPENT.

Mark 1:15 "The time has come," he said. "The kingdom of God has come near. Repent and believe the good news!"


That obedience to Christ leads to salvation.

Jesus tells us we have to obey.

Those who OBEY are the ones he makes his home with, see John 14:23.

THAT SCRIPTURE SAYS THOSE WHO OBEY HIS TEACHINGS.

Jesus teaches us to believe and REPENT OF OUR SINS.

Those who obey are the ones who receive the Holy Spirit. See Acts 5:32.

 

[God's Truth]

The kingdom of God is NEAR ALL OF US.

The kingdom of God is near all of us, and we have to believe and repent of our sins to receive the kingdom INSIDE OF US. That is about receiving the Holy Spirit.

Mark 1:15 "The time has come," he said. "The kingdom of God has come near. Repent and believe the good news!"

Matthew 4:17
From that time on Jesus began to preach, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven has come near."

Read what PAUL says:

Acts 17:30 In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent.

Paul is speaking about sin!

The Bible is not cut up all over the place; this for you that for me, this for them, etc.

There is one message and it is believe and obey God.

That has been the message from the beginning. The message is believe and obey God.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

I have explained this to you many times.

All the many scriptures that say we are to believe, they do not nullify the many scriptures that say obey.

If it takes more than believing that what is written here is not true:

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (Jn.3:16).​

According to you if a person believes then he will not have eternal life and he can perish. He will not have everlasting life until he believes and obeys.

You put your ideas over what the Scriptures actually say.

 

[jamie]

He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father and I will love him and manifest Myself to him. (John 14:21 NKJV)​

 

[God's Truth]

If it takes more than believing that what is written here is not true:

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (Jn.3:16).​

According to you if a person believes then he will not have eternal life and he can perish. He will not have everlasting life until he believes and obeys.

You put your ideas over what the Scriptures actually say.

If a person believes but does not obey, what kind of salvation do you think they have?

 

[God's Truth]

He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father and I will love him and manifest Myself to him. (John 14:21 NKJV)​

Amen.

 

[Cross Reference]

Amen.

Judgment begins in the house of the Lord. That means you as much as it means anyone else, GT.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

If a person believes but does not obey, what kind of salvation do you think they have?

They have the only kind of salvation that exists and John tells us about that salvation here:

"And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son" (1 Jn.5:11).​

Of course you will never taste that salvation because you refuse to believe what is so clear in the Scriptures:

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (Jn.3:16).​

 

[Cross Reference]

They have the only kind of salvation that exists and John tells us about that salvation here:

"And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son" (1 Jn.5:11).​

Of course you will never taste that salvation because you refuse to believe what is so clear in the Scriptures:

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (Jn.3:16).​

Do you believe you possess it? John 17:3

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Do you believe you possess it? John 17:3

Yes, the Lord has given me an understanding so that I can know these things are true:

"And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life" (1 Jn.5:20).​

I know that I have received eternal life in the Son because He has given me this understanding.

 

[Cross Reference]

Yes, the Lord has given me an understanding so that I can know these things are true:

"And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life" (1 Jn.5:20).​

I know that I have received eternal life in the Son because He has given me this understanding.

That isn't what I asked, is it and by what you imply you are saying you know God. Isn't that correct?

"At that day ye shall ask in My name . . . "The Father Himself loveth you." — John 16:26,27 KJV

"At that day ye shall ask in My name," i.e., in My nature. Not – "You shall use My name as a magic word," but – "You will be so intimate with Me that you will be one with Me." "That day" is not a day hereafter, but a day meant for here and now. "The Father Himself loveth you" – the union is so complete and absolute. Our Lord does not mean that life will be free from external perplexities, but that just as He knew the Father’s heart and mind, so by the baptism of the Holy Ghost He can lift us into the heavenly places where He can reveal the counsels of God to us.

"Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in My name. . . ." "That day" is a day of undisturbed relationship between God and the saint. Just as Jesus stood unsullied in the presence of His Father, so by the mighty efficacy of the baptism of the Holy Ghost, we can be lifted into that relationship – "that they may be one, even as We are One."

"He will give it you." Jesus says that God will recognize our prayers. What a challenge! By the Resurrection and Ascension power of Jesus, by the sent-down Holy Ghost, we can be lifted into such a relationship with the Father that we are at one with the perfect sovereign will of God by our free choice even as Jesus was. In that wonderful position, placed there by Jesus Christ, we can pray to God in His name, in His nature, which is gifted to us by the Holy Ghost, and Jesus says – "What soever ye shall ask the Father in My name, He will give it you." – The sovereign character of Jesus Christ is tested by His own statements. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .Oswald Chambers



You there yet, shugart?

OMT: Cessationists and Dispensationalists might have a problem believing for that above quote from Chambers

 

[Jerry Shugart]

That isn't what I asked, is it and by what you imply you are saying you know God.

You are confused. I did answer your question. Here is what you asked:

Do you believe you possess it? John 17:3

I told you that I do believe that I possess eternal life.