Creationists stumped by new hominid fossils

[Hedshaker]

I've tried going down the origin of God road before. It only leads to creationists saying "God is eternal" as if that's a good explanation, then demanding proof that the universe was created without a creator. Ironic, no?

And even more ironic that they can't even see the elephant in their own room. They admit that "something" doesn't need to be created, but then claim that their God, being eternal, created everything from nothing, including time. But then their eyes glaze over when you ask them to explain how God can be eternal when there's no time, eternal being a temporal concept.

And this is where all traces of rationality leave the conversation. At this point we usually learn that God can, not only exist apart from time, but can actually do stuff that requires time, like plan and create the universe. Apparently he can do anything because he's God. Doesn't that just shows the level of delusion we're dealing with?

 

[OCTOBER23]

WHY ARE THE SHOULDER BLADES RAISED UP SO HIGH AS TO MAKE THE ARMS APPEAR SHORTER??????

LOOKS LIKE A MONKEY TO ME.

 

[Hawkins]

Evolution is a joke basing on the BIG assumption that interbreeding can never occur.


The same group of scientists also found Neanderthal genes inside humans. Evolution won't bring Neanderthal genes into humans, the interbreeding does.

If interbreeding exists, how can you be sure that whatever human-like species are not a result of interbreeding instead of evolution, especially under the circumstance that you have only a pile of bones.


The answer: evolutionists are the most stupid 'scientists' ever existed.

 

[Greg Jennings]

The finds were real.

The interpretations were silly.

Keep in mind what I actually said "there is a long history of evolutionists trying to make ape fossils appear more human like; and make human fossils appear more ape like." And that is what I have shown. Even many, if not most evolutionists now acknowledge many of the original claims were false.

This is ridiculous 6days. I've asked you over and over to provide a source saying that just one....even just one...of the 8 hominid examples you listed was misinterpreted by scientists. You still haven't done it. I've been asking for three days in a row. It's become pretty obvious that you can't because no such source exists. Imagine that. Maybe you think dodging and throwing out "strawman" in a manner that implies you don't know its meaning is good debate. It's not.

Tell me why you are more qualified to make determinations on hominid fossils (that you can't even see in person!) than scientists that study paleontology for a living? Do you honestly think you know better?

 

[6days]

I've asked you over and over to provide a source saying that just one....even just one...of the 8 hominid examples you listed was misinterpreted by scientists.

And I keep pointing out you are trying to create a strawman. I have shown you over and over how evolutionists tried to make apes more human like... and humans more apelike.


Keep in mind what I actually said "there is a long history of evolutionists trying to make ape fossils appear more human like; and make human fossils appear more ape like."*And that is what I have shown. Even many, if not most evolutionists now acknowledge many of the original claims were false.
Ex....
Evolutionists now admit Neandertals are our ancestors.

Evolutionists now admit Neandertals walked upright.

Evolutionists now admit Neandertals had culture and were intelligent.
Etc etc etc.
These are all things evolutionists Originally were wrong on because they tried to make a human fossils appear more ape like.

Science helps confirm the truth of God's Word. We are all related...we are all one blood. Evolutionists could have saved themselves a lot of egg on their face if they would stop believing in ape men.


Re the 8 apes I originally mentioned... you have been provided references including page numbers showing evolutionists putting apes into human lineage. Google ... use Wikipedia to help you with this info.

 

[Greg Jennings]

Re the 8 apes I originally mentioned... you have been provided references including page numbers showing evolutionists putting apes into human lineage. Google ... use Wikipedia to help you with this info.

Yes they did put hominids into human lineage. You claimed that they were mistaken. I keep asking for you to give me a source that says that any one of them was just a human or just an ape, and not a hominid.

People aren't this stupid 6. Everybody can see you're simply dodging over and over because you know you claimed something that you can't back up. Sorry, but you made the claim originally. If you can't back it and can't admit you were mistaken, that makes you look pretty small.

I admitted yesterday that I was wrong about which way the salinity level would go in the event of a global flood. Why can't you do the same? If you can't admit when you're wrong, then you'll never have any credibility to anyone

 

[GuySmiley]

And even more ironic that they can't even see the elephant in their own room. They admit that something doesn't need to be created, and that God, being eternal, created everything from nothing, including time. But then their eyes glaze over when you ask them to explain how God can be eternal when there's no time, eternal being a temporal concept.

And this is where all traces of rationality leave the conversation. At this point we usually learn that God can, not only exist apart from time, but can actually do stuff, like plan and create the universe. He can do anything cause he's God. Doesn't that just shows the level of delusion we're dealing with?

God didn't create time. Not all Christians believe that, only the glazed ones.

Everything we know about universes demands that they have a beginning.

Everything we know about God doesn't demand that He has a beginning.

 

[iouae]

There is time in the spirit realm.

Revelation 8:1 And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.

 

[GuySmiley]

There is time in the spirit realm.

Revelation 8:1 And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.

This is also proof women don't go to heaven.

 

[Hedshaker]

Maybe you think dodging and throwing out "strawman" in a manner that implies you don't know its meaning is good debate. It's not.

No It's not. And bear in mind that 6 Days is the TOL queen of Strawman arguments. When he gets cornered he will ignore what you actually posted and throw out the regular creationist clap-trap cliche's like: "you believe that nothing created everything", when you didn't actually say that.

Watch out for it. I've picked him up on it before but that doesn't stop him. Also watch out for his quote mining and posting heavily edited videos designed to dishonestly promote creationist views.

Be warned of what you are dealing with

 

[Hedshaker]

God didn't create time. Not all Christians believe that, only the glazed ones.

There appears to be plenty of them. How do you know they are wrong and you are right?

Everything we know about universes demands that they have a beginning.

Universes maybe? But existence itself?? If universes were created by an intelligence then where did this intelligence come from??? You seem smart GuySmiley so you must surly be aware that "God is eternal" is a dodge and doesn't answer that question satisfactorily, right? If there is always some form of existence then no one can possibly know what caused the formation of the universe, right?

Everything we know about God doesn't demand that He has a beginning.

Assuming we mean Bible God then all we know about this God was written by ancient, pre science, superstitious scribes. Why should we trust what they had to say?

 

[Hedshaker]

There is time in the spirit realm.

What is the spirit realm? Is it similar to cloud cuckoo land?

 

[iouae]

What is the spirit realm? Is it similar to cloud cuckoo land?

That is not a bad guess.

When the demons rebelled millions/billions of years ago, they got cut off from God. Many of them ARE in cloud cuckoo land. As is demonstrated when they possess people.

Moral of the story - cut off from God and given enough time, it's all downhill.

 

[GuySmiley]

There appears to be plenty of them. How do you know they are wrong and you are right?

There sure does. Two ways, the same way you do, and the Bible never teaches God is outside of time, it says the opposite.

Universes maybe? But existence itself?? If universes were created by an intelligence then where did this intelligence come from??? You seem smart GuySmiley so you must surly be aware that "God is eternal" is a dodge and doesn't answer that question satisfactorily, right? If there is always some form of existence then no one can possibly know what caused the formation of the universe, right?

I never claimed existence itself needs a beginning, only universes. Existence itself can be eternal. Or it could not be. We don't know anything about existence itself that demands it has a beginning. If we knew something about existence itself that demanded a beginning, then you couldn't say its eternal.

If you're just going by the best evidence then universes need a beginning and God doesn't.

Assuming we mean Bible God then all we know about this God was written by ancient, pre science, superstitious scribes. Why should we trust what they had to say?

It has been believed to be the word of God since the beginning. I'm assuming you don't accept that so . . . you don't have to trust that. But you still cant say that God must have had a beginning and demand an answer other than "God is eternal." For that you'd need some reason why "God is eternal" can't be the answer. You've said its just a doge and an unsatisfying answer . . . why? To me its satisfying, I don't understand your lack of satisfaction.

Do you believe in something else that is eternal? Can you imagine something that is eternal? How would you answer if someone asked for its origin? You'd say it's eternal. How is that a dodge?

 

[GuySmiley]

What is the spirit realm? Is it similar to cloud cuckoo land?

I've never heard of cloud cuckoo land. If you define it a little I could answer.

 

[Hedshaker]

That is not a bad guess.

When the demons rebelled millions/billions of years ago, they got cut off from God. Many of them ARE in cloud cuckoo land. As is demonstrated when they possess people.

Moral of the story - cut off from God and given enough time, it's all downhill.

Right, OK then

Honestly, nothing I'm about to say is meant to demean you cause you seem like a nice person and I wouldn't want to do that.

There is a reality going on apart from all this religious stuff you have been brought up to believe. But the question is, what is it? No matter what you have been taught, beliefs do not represent truth and reality, they represent only beliefs, which are many and varied. You can check that out for yourself and see. Christianity is just one of many belief systems, which cannot all be true but which can, by definition of faith, all be false.

I don't know about you but for me truth is extremely important, and I know "truth" is a difficult thing to define but are you truly open to it?

If you are really interested in what is true start by eliminating what is obviously false. Take a critical examination of the origins of Christianity. Put aside for a moment all the magical stuff that as never been proven and use your critical thinking .

If Christianity is true then what could possibly be the harm?

 

[Hedshaker]

There sure does. Two ways, the same way you do, and the Bible never teaches God is outside of time, it says the opposite.

So then, in your view, was there time and therefore existence before creation?

I never claimed existence itself needs a beginning, only universes. Existence itself can be eternal. Or it could not be. We don't know anything about existence itself that demands it has a beginning. If we knew something about existence itself that demanded a beginning, then you couldn't say its eternal.

So you accept something, beside God, had no beginning?

If you're just going by the best evidence then universes need a beginning and God doesn't

I don't know anything about any god nor do you really

It has been believed to be the word of God since the beginning. I'm assuming you don't accept that so . . . you don't have to trust that. But you still cant say that God must have had a beginning and demand an answer other than "God is eternal." For that you'd need some reason why "God is eternal" can't be the answer. You've said its just a doge and an unsatisfying answer . . . why? To me its satisfying, I don't understand your lack of satisfaction

.

Because it leaves more questions than answers. Where did God come from? God is eternal means nothing. It's just an apologetic. I start with what we have and add nothing and when I don't know I admit it, and so should you. Cherished beliefs should never be confused with actual knowledge

Do you believe in something else that is eternal? Can you imagine something that is eternal? How would you answer if someone asked for its origin? You'd say it's eternal. How is that a dodge?

I suspect existence itself may be eternal, ever changing, beyond its own control and way, way beyond our understanding. Nor do I reject the notion that there is more than one universe. Why not?

 

[GuySmiley]

So then, in your view, was there time and therefore existence before creation?

So you accept something, beside God, had no beginning?

Yes, and no. God existed, so there was existence.

I don't know anything about any god nor do you really

Oh, huh, why didn't you just say so sooner. lol

Because it leaves more questions than answers. Where did God come from?

It doesn't in relation to the original question of when did God begin, or who made God, or whatever. God is eternal answers those questions. It might make you think of more questions but life is like that sometimes. It makes things interesting. Where did God come from? I don't know. We aren't told anything about that.

God is eternal means nothing. It's just an apologetic. I start with what we have and add nothing and when I don't know I admit it, and so should you.

"God is eternal" has meaning. It means He is eternal. The word eternal has a meaning and applying it to God as a descriptor means something. So now you can no longer say "I don't know anything about any god" because I have conveyed one piece of information to you about a god. God is eternal.

Cherished beliefs should never be confused with actual knowledge

That's for sure. But they aren't mutually exclusive.

I suspect existence itself may be eternal*, ever changing, beyond its own control and way, way beyond our understanding. Nor do I reject the notion that there is more than one universe. Why not?

I don't know why not. I suspect the same things. I also don't reject the notion that there is more than one universe. I don't embrace it either.

EDIT: * I forgot to point this out, that right there you said existence itself may be eternal. I understood what you meant by this, it had meaning.

 

[6days]

Yes they did put hominids into human lineage.

Keep in mind what I actually said "there is a long history of evolutionists trying to make ape fossils appear more human like; and make human fossils appear more ape like."

You are getting closer Greg!
But try not reshape what I said by using different terms. Can you also admit they tried to make a little 13# ape lke / monkey like creature more human like by putting it into human lineage.
Now... can you admit that evolutionists tried to make Neandertals ape like by a museum displays showing him with a hairy fur like coat?*

There was no evidence they were hairy like a gorilla.... Correct? Yet in museum displays they were shown as stooped over hairy beasts. The portrayal was based on the evolutionary belief system - not science.

I keep asking for you to give me a source that says that any one of them was just a human or just an ape, and not a hominid.

Some evolutionists still try deny the humanity of Neandertals. Science has proven evolutionists wrong.*

As to sources Greg.... a wee bit of research would help you. Try Google, or even use Wikipedia to show you that even evolutionists now reject many of the earlier claims that tried to make monkeys, apes and lemurs appear more human like.

Anyways.... its sort of fun to keep showing how evolutionists make bold claims making men out of monkeys..then later backtracking.
EX. RAMAPITHECUS BREVIROSTIS*
Evolutionist claim
"We now come to the interesting bit, the beginning of our own ancestral line. It starts with a creature called Ramapitecus. .... This missing link probably around 25 million years old, would be the youngest common ancestor of man..."

From the book "The Monkey Puzzle" p-74 by John Griffen and Jeremiah Cher fast *(both evolutionists )
BTW...This particular *'fossil' consisted *of a single jaw, yet there are drawings of a complete creature. That isn't science...its blind faith and story telling / monkey business.

Reality check
By Leaky and Lewin P-27 in their book 'Origins'.
" now if we are absolutely honest, we have to admit that we know nothing about, Ramapithecus, we don't know what it look like; we don't know what it did; and naturally we don't know how it did it! But with the aid of jaw and tooth fragments and one or two bits and pieces from arms and legs, all of which represents a couple of dozen individuals, we can make some guesses, more or less inspired."

I'm not sure if you think that is humorous? Or do you think that is real science?

If you wish we can keep talking how evolutionists like to make men into monkeys...and as with Ramapithecus, they like to make monkeys into men.*

 

[6days]

....., but from bone structure it's clear it's a new species

Nope.... that is evolutionary storytelling. Can you compare the bone structure of a bulldog and a chihuahua and say that one is a new species?