noguru
Well-known member
No. I am assuming (or, believing without room for any exception) that God exists and that the order we see in creation, such as the identification of kinds and the position of man above all other created things that live or dwell upon the earth, speaks to God's intelligence and power.
I don't understand what you are asking here.
All I mean is that the natural world is not all there is. It would be irrational to conceive of a universe in which God does not exist knowing that God exists.
How so?
Would you say God exists and that nothing in His creation testifies to His existence?
That is not true. The Bible says that in the beginning the earth was formless and void. Some people believe this to be chaos.
I agree that science cannot disprove God's existence.
Are you saying you do not believe that the conclusion that God created the universe can be a scientific conclusion?
Not natural processes independent of God. God created everything that is "natural".
I don't know what you mean. I think you are misinterpreting when I say "order".
I haven't said no God equals chaos. There is no such thing as "no God" except in the minds of some people.
By influence I recognize people speak of both a Supernatural and a natural, or of both a Supernatural world and the world of the atheist. I am not making the natural world to be the world only for the atheist, or saying that the atheist can only experience the natural. What I am saying is that in identifying a difference between Supernatural and natural we either recognize the influence of God and the Supernatural over the natural or we posit as if we are our own gods and worthy of such a claim that God cannot have any influence over the natural, whether we believe (in) God or not. I am saying the Supernatural, namely God (and the angels), can influence the world God created, whether that name is creation or nature (which may correspond in some minds to "the natural world"). The created order in my mind includes the things we find in nature, but it also speaks to a hierarchy within the things God created, for example that angels are higher than men, or that men are to have dominion over the animals God created.
I am doing no such thing. Unless by chaos you mean a world without God.
This is where I would say simply that I am a Theist and not a Deist.
I believe we can sense or perceive more than only the natural world. That there are unseen things that we can know about, such as God.
I don't know what you mean.
You keep avoiding my direct questions. I don't have time for this game you are playing.