Creation vs. Evolution

[noguru]

I believe the subject of mankind is important for the discussion.

But the issue of creation and evolution may be an issue of sin more than it is an issue of science. So we have man, and creation, and sin and the fall, and other issues. Creation is science in a way. And maybe evolution, at least on the large scale like macro evolution, is not.

I don't know Craig's view. Only an observation from his video which seemed to be timely when I saw it today at the same time as the issues being discussed. I actually am not an old earth creationist, though I used to be. I believe Dr. Craig may be an old earth creationist. At least it sounds like it from this video of his. But he endeavors to explain the Bible, which discusses creation, in a way that makes sense to those who delve into science, whatever their view.

Nothing good there. Got anything else?

 

[Jacob]

Nothing good there. Got anything else?

About man, sin, and the fall in light of creation with old earth or new earth being the subject when the Bible and young earth creation are pitted against evolution?

 

[noguru]

About man, sin, and the fall in light of creation with old earth or new earth being the subject when the Bible and young earth creation are pitted against evolution?

Nope, still no science there. It is not even clear what you are saying. Got anything else?

Your screen name is becoming more and more appropriate, however. Perhaps you should take some lessons from Craig.

 

[Jacob]

Nope, still no science there. Got anything else?

Your screen name is becoming more and more appropriate, however.

The science had to do with Eve.

 

[noguru]

The science had to do with Eve.

And that was already explained to you. You have offered nothing compelling yet.

 

[Jacob]

And that was already explained to you. You have offered nothing compelling yet.

It wasn't explained to me until I brought it up.

 

[noguru]

Genealogies are one way of measuring time.

Yes, they were the first ways used in written human history. Bishop Ussher used them and accomplished one of the most involved efforts to set up a timeline of human history. However this was before modern science came along. Since we now have a more reliable set of tools supplied by modern science, we realize that Ussher was inaccurate.

 

[noguru]

It wasn't explained to me until I brought it up.

:chuckle:

:think:

And that should be whose problem?

 

[Jacob]

:chuckle:

:think:

And that should be whose problem?

I've never said it was yours.

 

[noguru]

I've never said it was yours.

But somehow it has become mine just from responding to you. I will help you understand if I can. But something tells me you don't want to understand this. You know you can actually research this material for yourself before you post here.

 

[Jacob]

But somehow it has become mine just from responding to you.

I'm glad you have sorted that out.

 

[noguru]

I'm glad you have sorted that out.

Me too. And I want to thank you for your concern.

 

[Jacob]

Me too. And I want to thank you for your concern.

I don't want it to come across negatively, and I can see that you care.

 

[noguru]

I don't want it to come across negatively, and I can see that you care.

I can see that you are being straight with me now. The only thing I find negative is when someone is not straight with me, whether or not they mean it.

I have to go to a meeting. I will be back in about an hour.

 

[Jacob]

I can see that you are being straight with me now. The only thing I find negative is when someone is not straight with me, whether or not they mean it.

I have to go to a meeting. I will be back in about an hour.

I like honesty and transparency, but I didn't see I had a need for that in mentioning Eve (and Adam) and the fall.

 

[noguru]

I like honesty and transparency, but I didn't see I had a need for that in mentioning Eve (and Adam) and the fall.

Again, this thread is about the empirical evidence for the science behind the alternative origins models. Theological considerations (concerning that specific issue) that are based on specific interpretations of theological text should be left out of any scientific research program. The only theology that should be allowed to have an influence is in regard to moral values regarding the application of science (what we ought to do with scientific knowledge), but not in determining how the physical world works. The former is of concern for humanistic and civil rights issues, the later creates a confirmation bias which breeds willful ignorance which we can clearly see in you. I do appreciate your efforts though.

 

[Jacob]

Again, this thread is about the empirical evidence for the science behind the alternative origins models. Theological considerations (concerning that specific issue) that are based on specific interpretations of theological text should be left out of any scientific research program. The only theology that should be allowed to have an influence is in regard to moral values regarding the application of science (what we ought to do with scientific knowledge), but not in determining how the physical world works.

This is about discipline. There are many disciplines. But our study is our discipline when we consider the truth of God word and the evidence for creation found in nature.

 

[noguru]

This is about discipline. There are many disciplines. But our study is our discipline when we consider the truth of God word and the evidence for creation found in nature.

I doubt you have any valuable discipline to offer. I think your views are based on a loose cannon type approach to the world. That coupled with sloppy thinking is a recipe for disaster.

 

[Jacob]

I doubt you have any valuable discipline. I think your views are based on a loose cannon type approach to the world.

Science is a discipline. Theology can be seen as a discipline. What matters in terms of practice in life is godly discipline.

 

[noguru]

Science is a discipline. Theology can be seen as a discipline. What matters in terms of practice in life is godly discipline.

Right, and you lack that. You may try to compensate for that by trying to attach yourself to "Biblical" principles, but your attempts at that are only as good as the person trying it.