Common views of God and time.

tetelestai

tetelestai

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Knight said:
That's a great point!!!

The only possible way your theology is consistent is to apply a label to it that states that it is consistent. Truth by fiat! I am going to come up with my own word similar to compatibilism. :think: :idea: :sozo: Sneezeltoe!

Sneezeltoe means that Knight is right and anyone he is debating is wrong. It's brilliant I tell you.... brilliant!!!

Sneezeltoe!
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Do you believe God “creates” souls?

I assume your answer is “yes”. Unless you are a traducianist the soul is imparted to us at birth from God. So, when were these souls created? I was born in 1964, my dad in 1937, my grandfather in 1905, etc.

Does God create these souls on an “as need basis” (thousands each day)? Were they all created in eternity past? Did my soul exist anywhere or anyhow before March 22, 1964?
 
Nathon Detroit

Nathon Detroit

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Stripe said:
Faith.
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Exactly!

I trust God because He is righteous, just, and loving, and not because He can't move. Basically what tetelestai is saying is the only possible way he could trust God is if God was incapable of any type of new action at all. It isn't a loving relationship when the husband only trusts the wife by keeping her locked up in the closet.

tetelestai, you can let God out! You can trust Him! He will keep His word because His is righteous and just.
 
Stripe

Stripe

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The gospel message we present to people is that if they repent and confess Christ then God will honour their faith. Asserting that God already knows the end of our evangelism utterly defeats the effort.
 
Delmar

Delmar

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tetelestai said:
Anthropopathism
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I really hate when you do that! An Anthropopathism is a particular type of figure of speech. When you say that the scripture being quoted is a figure of speech (which it may well be) it does nothing to move the conversation forward unless you tell us what point you believe God is communicating with this particular figure of speech.
 
Stripe

Stripe

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tetelestai said:
Correct.

And for us people who believe God is immutable, we have peace knowing that God will not change His mind about it.
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I have peace that He will not change His mind over my salvation also. :idunno:
 
Delmar

Delmar

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tetelestai said:
Do you believe God “creates” souls?

I assume your answer is “yes”. Unless you are a traducianist the soul is imparted to us at birth from God. So, when were these souls created? I was born in 1964, my dad in 1937, my grandfather in 1905, etc.

Does God create these souls on an “as need basis” (thousands each day)? Were they all created in eternity past? Did my soul exist anywhere or anyhow before March 22, 1964?
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Nothing you have said in this post describes what I believe, but I think this is off topic for this thread.
 
Nathon Detroit

Nathon Detroit

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tetelestai said:
Do you believe God “creates” souls?

I assume your answer is “yes”. Unless you are a traducianist the soul is imparted to us at birth from God. So, when were these souls created? I was born in 1964, my dad in 1937, my grandfather in 1905, etc.

Does God create these souls on an “as need basis” (thousands each day)? Were they all created in eternity past? Did my soul exist anywhere or anyhow before March 22, 1964?
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Did you have a point to make? Because I don't want to get way off track by talking about how souls are generated.
 
Nathon Detroit

Nathon Detroit

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tetelestai said:
What if He changes His mind?
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God has given us the Holy Spirit as a guarantee (2Corinthians 1:22, 2Corinthians 5:5, Ephesians 1:14). I trust God and His guarantee. If the only way we can trust God is to freeze Him solid so that He cannot move, what kind of a relationship is that?
 
tetelestai

tetelestai

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Knight said:
Did you have a point to make? Because I don't want to get way off track by talking about how souls are generated.
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Well I was going to make my point with (Eph 1:4)

According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

But then I remembered that the open theist has to claim this is a corporate election so that it fits with open theism. so never mind.
 
Delmar

Delmar

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tetelestai said:
I don't know Knight, if I were an open theist, I might have to keep Him locked up:


What if He changes His mind?
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I would so enjoy going all Sozo on you right now, but Knight said to set a new tone.

tetelestai
Can I assume that you would affirm that God's righteous character never changes?
 
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godrulz

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tetelestai said:
No, that would make God an immutable and impassable God, not an inanimate object.
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Immutable, impassible, static? Personal, living, dynamic, responsive!

Trust us, classical immutability and impassibility is Platonic, flawed, not biblical.

God is faithful, not fickle. This does not mean that He cannot change in some ways (relations, etc.) or that change has to be inconsistent with His great character and attributes. God allows himself to be influenced through prayer (hence no impassibility). This does not have to be seen as a compromise of His power or sovereignty (it is not).
 
Nathon Detroit

Nathon Detroit

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tetelestai said:
Well I was going to make my point with (Eph 1:4)

According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

But then I remembered that the open theist has to claim this is a corporate election so that it fits with open theism. so never mind.
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:up:

Good job, I appreciate you at least acknowledging that. I really do. I realize you don't agree with it but that fact that you acknowledged it saves us all time and wastes fewer posts.
 
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godrulz

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tetelestai said:
Fair enough, but just becuase it doesn't work in your brain doesn't mean it isn't true.

The only way God can have exhaustive foreknowledge and us free will at the same time is for God to be outside of time. Then it works.
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This does not resolve the issue. You are still saying the future exists before we exist or make the choices that eventually are part of the future. You cannot just assume something. At a more technical level, some have shown that your assumptions do not stand. Timelessness does not solve the problems of the incompatibility of free will/EDF. Timelessness might support determinism, but not free will (Arminians assume it without being able to prove these things; Open Theists refute them and propose a more coherent position; middle knowledge is a mess).
 
The Graphite

The Graphite

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tetelestai said:
I don't know Knight, if I were an open theist, I might have to keep Him locked up:
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If you were an Open Theist, you'd know that you can't keep Him locked up. :)

What if He changes His mind?
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The Lord only changes His mind in such a way that He maintains His unwaveringly loving and just character. And that is something we can trust, because EVERY example of His changing His mind in scripture demonstrates exactly that.

Which is why said earlier that:

Fulfilled prophecy is evidence for the God of the Bible.

Unfulfilled prophecy is evidence that the God of the Bible is righteous!
 
G

godrulz

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tetelestai said:
Do you believe God “creates” souls?

I assume your answer is “yes”. Unless you are a traducianist the soul is imparted to us at birth from God. So, when were these souls created? I was born in 1964, my dad in 1937, my grandfather in 1905, etc.

Does God create these souls on an “as need basis” (thousands each day)? Were they all created in eternity past? Did my soul exist anywhere or anyhow before March 22, 1964?
Click to expand...

Our reality/being starts at conception. Mormons and Origen say that souls pre-exist (they are wrong).
 
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